Best Alternator for Lombardini Engine

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, curlass24 said:

So that didn't work. The green wire in the middle cones out with a connection. Could that be the added tacho connection? I took it off and we're right where d+ is.

Sorry b+. It is on the other side where I had the thin red bull now have the one thick red attached 

Yep, sounds like the green wire is a phase tap for the tacho. With the engine running get your multimeter and see what voltage is on the green wire (other side of the multimeter to the case). If it’s about 7 or 8 volts then it’s almost certainly the tacho feed. 

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, curlass24 said:

So that didn't work. The green wire in the middle cones out with a connection. Could that be the added tacho connection? I took it off and we're right where d+ is.

Sorry b+. It is on the other side where I had the thin red bull now have the one thick red attached 

Take both thin wires OFF. Turn the ignition on and then touch each thin wire to clean metal, one at a time. The one that causes the charge light to illuminate goes to D+

The other wire in the harness is then usually the rev counter wire so connects to W.

[curlass24]

Ok thanks will try this tomorrow. I'm worried I might have broken it now with all this miss wiring. Also I over tightened the nut at W and think it's broken beneath. Will this affect the alternator working?

[WotEver]

7 minutes ago, curlass24 said:

I over tightened the nut at W and think it's broken beneath.

I think you now need to take it to an alternator specialist who can fix whatever you’ve broken, test that the whole thing still works, and confirm which terminal is which. 

[Tony Brooks]

10 hours ago, curlass24 said:

Ok thanks will try this tomorrow. I'm worried I might have broken it now with all this miss wiring. Also I over tightened the nut at W and think it's broken beneath. Will this affect the alternator working?

It all depends upon the internal design. I doubt the rev counter will work but the charging might. If you have damaged a diode or diode plate in some way then it might create a permanent discharge, it might just reduce the charging current and amperage, or it might not work at all.

 

Transposing the warning lamp and rev counter wires is very unlikely to cause any damage to a typical 9 diode machine. Transposing the main charging leads will almost certainly cause damage and magic smoke. Putting the main positive lead on the negative is more likely to damage the wiring harness. Puttimng the main positive on the warning lamp terminal is probably safe enough and I think the same goes of the W terminal.

[Boater Sam]

Yes but having run the engine with no B+ connected could well have whacked it.

[curlass24]

Thanks guys I'm going to have another try this evening. Another thing I'm wondering is whether I could have blown a fuse? When removing the old alternator the main battery and warning light wires touched by mistake creating a big spark. (I have now learnt to cut all current off before playing with electrics..)

 

Is there a fuse external to the alternator that might have blown?

[Bod]

I feel that the new alternator needs to be professionally tested, to find out if it has been damaged or not.

Only then can questions be asked regarding what wire goes where.

 

Bod

[Tony Brooks]

39 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Yes but having run the engine with no B+ connected could well have whacked it.

No it can't or it it does it is very rare.. The problem comes when you disconnect the load with the alternator charging. Its to do with the magnetic fields inside the alternator suddenly collapsing causing a voltage surge.

24 minutes ago, curlass24 said:

Thanks guys I'm going to have another try this evening. Another thing I'm wondering is whether I could have blown a fuse? When removing the old alternator the main battery and warning light wires touched by mistake creating a big spark. (I have now learnt to cut all current off before playing with electrics..)

 

Is there a fuse external to the alternator that might have blown?

There may or may not be usually no be. If the main engine battery lead is fused then it would normally be of such a high rating for starting (very rare) it would not blow. Anyway if the warning lamps work then such a fuse is not used or has not blown. That only leaves the rare possibility of a fuse on the alternator main positive cable.

[MtB]

Tony Brooks said:

 

"No it can't or it it does it is very rare.. The problem comes when you disconnect the load with the alternator charging."

 

 

This bit here by the OP suggests to me the diodes might be goosed, if the big spark mentioned was the load being disconnected whilst running. 

 

On 01/08/2018 at 10:50, curlass24 said:

Hi guys, my altenator has arrived today but I'm struggling to get it to sork. I fitted and and the engine started but the it wasn't charging. I am now unsure where the wires should go. When I tried moving on of them there was a big spark. Any suggestions? I have three wires

 

 

 

(I can't figure out how to include quotes in a post from two different pages. Anyone know how?)

[Tony Brooks]

18 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Tony Brooks said:

 

"No it can't or it it does it is very rare.. The problem comes when you disconnect the load with the alternator charging."

 

 

This bit here by the OP suggests to me the diodes might be goosed, if the big spark mentioned was the load being disconnected whilst running. 

 

 

 

 

(I can't figure out how to include quotes in a post from two different pages. Anyone know how?)

Mike

 

I read that as he had short circuited the main pos to the case in some way. If he did as you say then I agree with you.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

Mike

 

I read that as he had short circuited the main pos to the case in some way. If he did as you say then I agree with you.

 

Yes that's a good possibility. Hopefully the correct one.

 

He mentioned it was 'not charging' when removing the wires (I think) because the red charging light was illuminated - so this implied to me the engine was running and the alternator had self-excited, but WAS actually charging and the warning light circuit was connected wrongly.

Easily settled if the OP could tell us whether or not the engine was running when he was disconnecting and swapping about the wires.

[curlass24]

So I've just spoken with the supplier. The B+ is for the main battery lead which I have connected. The D+ is for the warning light which I have connected (will double check it is right. The W is for the rev counter (which think is broke.

 

They weren't sure about the green, said to leave. So I understand it should work as long as main battery and warning light are wired correct. 

 

My question now is, are there likely to be any external fuses that I might have blown and should check?

[philjw]

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

There may or may not be usually no be. If the main engine battery lead is fused then it would normally be of such a high rating for starting (very rare) it would not blow. Anyway if the warning lamps work then such a fuse is not used or has not blown. That only leaves the rare possibility of a fuse on the alternator main positive cable.

The fuse question has already been answered.

[Tony Brooks]

32 minutes ago, philjw said:

The fuse question has already been answered.

As best as we can with the information to hand.

[Tony Brooks]

55 minutes ago, curlass24 said:

So I've just spoken with the supplier. The B+ is for the main battery lead which I have connected. The D+ is for the warning light which I have connected (will double check it is right. The W is for the rev counter (which think is broke.

 

They weren't sure about the green, said to leave. So I understand it should work as long as main battery and warning light are wired correct. 

 

My question now is, are there likely to be any external fuses that I might have blown and should check?

We told you all that in paragraph 1 many posts ago and it has been repeated.

 

Now you introduce a green wire that has not been mentioned before and was certainly not in the original photos. Is this green wire coming out of the wiring loom or out of the alternator? In a photo it looks very much as if it is coming from the voltage regulator under the black plastic cover and if so it might be a sense wire for the voltage regulator. You need to clarify this because if I am right and you leave it disconnected either it still will not charge or it may cook the batteries.

 

In fact if the green wire is from the voltage regulator AND YOU HAVE NOT MOVED IT then as long as the terminal it is fixed to is in fact in parallel with D+ then its probably correctly connected to provide the sense voltage. (this is not proven fact, more an informed guess).

 

If I am right and you gave the supplier the impression it was from the loom then they would be correct but answering based on poor information so the answer was not correct. If the wire is coming from the alternator itself then ONCE AGAIN we need the MAKE and model number, not the Lombardini part number, so we stand a chance of googling for more information. Alternitively you will need to go back to the supplier and tell them more about the green wire.

[Wiltshire Moonraker]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

ONCE AGAIN we need the MAKE and model number, not the Lombardini part number, so we stand a chance of googling for more information.

You will find an illustration at https://www.amazon.it/ASL-908-Alternatore-trifase-63320111-63321136-63321190-11572700-lra01579-lra1579/dp/B06XFNQ8FP

of what I believe is an Letrika (Iskra) alternator which is very similar except it does not have a W terminal. The Italian text is not too helpful!

 

An older model with a W terminal is illustrated here https://hc-cargo.co.uk/catalog/p/113533--alternator It has a larger rectifier cover 

The large stud is the B+ terminal. The green wire comes from the diode trio (part of the rectifier assembly)

Which in turn connects to the regulator via the block marked D+ which is also the warning light connection

Hope this clarifies to some degree. 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Wiltshire Moonraker
Sentence re-ordered to make clearer

[Tony Brooks]

16 minutes ago, Wiltshire Moonraker said:

You will find an illustration at https://www.amazon.it/ASL-908-Alternatore-trifase-63320111-63321136-63321190-11572700-lra01579-lra1579/dp/B06XFNQ8FP

of what I believe is an Letrika (Iskra) alternator which is very similar except it does not have a W terminal. The Italian text is not too helpful!

 

An older model with a W terminal is illustrated here https://hc-cargo.co.uk/catalog/p/113533--alternator It has a larger rectifier cover 

The large stud is the B+ terminal. The green wire comes from the diode trio (part of the rectifier assembly)

Which in turn connects to the regulator via the block marked D+ which is also the warning light connection

Hope this clarifies to some degree. 

 

Thanks for that.

 

Yes it seem to be as I suspected part of the alternator and is the sense wire. It should have been supplied with it correctly connected and I think it was from the photo.There was never any need for the OP to disconnect it. If he does what the suppliers said and leaves it off I can foresee a charging voltage of 15V plus and cooked batteries. Exactly what voltage it runs up to will depend on whatever "fail safe voltage", if any, is built into the regulator.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Tony Brooks

[curlass24]

Hi guys, first of all I"d like to thank you all for the advice. So I took the hit and bought a new alternator as I had clearly damaged the other. I've clarified with the supplier all the connection which we have right. The green wire is in fact a rectifier so have left that alone. I test the wires and found the one that turns of the light when touching metal so know which wire is which.

 

I have now wired up the new alternator and it still doesn't work. Is the last possibly that there is a fuse on the b+ wire? The last alternator was 70amps and this is 80amp. 

[Tony Brooks]

4 minutes ago, curlass24 said:

Hi guys, first of all I"d like to thank you all for the advice. So I took the hit and bought a new alternator as I had clearly damaged the other. I've clarified with the supplier all the connection which we have right. The green wire is in fact a rectifier so have left that alone. I test the wires and found the one that turns of the light when touching metal so know which wire is which.

 

I have now wired up the new alternator and it still doesn't work. Is the last possibly that there is a fuse on the b+ wire? The last alternator was 70amps and this is 80amp. 

I doubt anyone can tell you unless they fitted out the boat but if you stick a voltmeter on the B+ cable to some metal and you get battery voltage then no, you do not have a blown fuse. If there is no significant voltage then you may have a blown fuse, a duff isolation switch, or a broken or disconnected cable somewhere.

 

PS I very much doubt that green wire is A RECTIFIER. I am almost sure it is just a feed to the voltage regulator but it may COME FROM  the rectifier.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Tony Brooks

[WotEver]

2 hours ago, curlass24 said:

I have now wired up the new alternator and it still doesn't work.

How are you determining this?

[Mike Hurley]

I think now is the time to get a qualified person to physically check your electrics before you blow another alternator, must be cheaper in the long run and safer.

Looks like you have another thread running about a clicking behind the instrument panel? Get professional help before something else goes pop and causes an even bigger problem.

[Neil Smith]

It might be that there was nothing wrong with the other alternator so don't chuck it, it sounds like your wiring is at fault which could also mean your original one was not broken as you thought, so as suggested get a marine sparks to have a look.

 

Neil