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Red Lion Cropredy

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2 hours ago, Laurie.Booth said:

Where in Braunston is the Indian restaurant?

Maybe 

 

2 hours ago, Laurie.Booth said:

Where in Braunston is the Indian restaurant?

The different location is probably Stoke Bruerne... The Navigation (Marston's), The Boat and, opposite that, The Spice of Bruerne.

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Chatting to locals last night. Alledgedly the Red Lion is due to close after the festival. Someone has looked at the pub, but the general consensus is that it will close. Any ingoing tennant is likely to want the festival.

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1 hour ago, mayalld said:

Charging more for soft drinks than beer is fairly rare, and in this example a pint of Lemonade is 80p less than a pint of bitter, and let us not forget that very few people want Ice, lemon and a (very expensive, have you seen the price of ethical straws that customers now want) straw with their John Smiths

 

The views of punters on what is reasonable will depend on what those punters are drinking!

 

You rightly note that they sell more beer than coke, so if you put 10p on beer and knock a quid off coke, so upset more people than you make happy. Not a good business model.

 

You also ignore the fact that this is how capitalism works. There isn't some arbitrary requirement of "fair". Things sell for what the market will pay for them.

 

And just to reassure you, Soda is £1 a pint, not £2.40

The difference is that people already paying (say) three or four quid a pint (including me) don't really notice a 10p rise, but people paying a quid less for a pint of soft drink really do. And they pay it because the only choice is that or go thirsty. Yes it can be how capitalism works, at least in pubs (but see below), but I know people who don't drink alcohol and won't go to a particular pub because of the soft drink prices -- and if they don't go and their partner drinks, that's two customers lost to another pub with more sensible soft drink prices -- which do exist, and don't seem to be going out of business, in fact exactly the opposite.

 

Particularly given the rise in the number of non-drinkers (meaning, non-alcoholic drinks) especially amongst the young, and cutbacks in public transport (so more people have to drive), you'd therefore have thought it would make business sense to price soft drinks more reasonably. Given that the USA is generally seen as the epitome of red-in-tooth-and-claw capitalism, perhaps I should point out that there soft drinks are generally much cheaper than alcoholic ones, with free refills in some bars (though maybe this is taking it too far) -- in other words, ripoff soft drink prices in pubs may be normal practice in the UK simply because that's what most pubs do, not because they need to do it or can really justify it.

 

And I've been charged £2.50 for a pint of soda water (for my wife) before now...

Edited by IanD

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25 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Chatting to locals last night. Alledgedly the Red Lion is due to close after the festival. Someone has looked at the pub, but the general consensus is that it will close. Any ingoing tennant is likely to want the festival.

Not unless they're complete masochists, they aren't. Can you imagine taking over a pub whose footfall is going to increase by several thousand % before you've even learned the names of your staff and how the till works? Far better to move in during a quieter period, shirley?

58 minutes ago, mayalld said:

 let us not forget that very few people want John Smiths

 

 

.....if anything resembling actual beer is available.

 

There, I've edited that for you.

 

A similar comment applies to the flavour-free Doombar.

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I'm quite happy that a decent beer that costs me (say) £1.60 in a supermarket costs (say) £4.00 in a pub, the same way as a meal that I can cook at home for (say) £6 costs (say) £15, 60% gross margin is perfectly reasonable for a business with their level of expenses -- if I don't want to pay it I can always eat and drink at home.

 

So I do completely sympathise with the difficult time publicans have nowadays, especially the fact that in many places it's impossible nowadays to make a living from drink sales (unless they're packed every night), which is why so many pubs prioritise food where the takings and margins are higher -- they're caught between rising rates/rents/wages/costs, cheap supermarket booze, smoking bans, drink-driving crackdowns, shrinking public transport, and lower alcohol consumption generally and especially amongst the young.

 

My kids are in their early twenties, one loves beer (and whisky, and gin), the other tipples occasionally or not at tall, they have friends some of who don't drink alcohol. When a bunch of them go out to a pub they'll target ones with good beer (obviously!) but also deliberately avoid ones with ripoff soft drink prices; these pubs don't just lose the soft drinkers but also the hard ones. Likewise if I go out with my wife who doesn't drink much nowadays and often drives -- great for me, but a pub which charges almost as much for soda water as beer is not going to see our custom again any time soon. And word gets around, complaints especially ("Jeez, you won't believe what the ******* was charging for lemonade" -- from a friend last Saturday in Windsor).

 

Like I said, it needs a culture change -- in the USA many bars treat soft drinkers especially nicely because they're the ones driving and they bring the big-spending alcohol drinkers with them. In the UK many pubs treat soft drinkers as a cash cow to be milked to death, they only see the money made from them not the (bigger) money lost by driving them and their drinking friends away.

 

That's not really capitalism, and it certainly isn't good business -- so add this to the long list of reasons why pubs in the UK are doing badly, except that this one is their own fault.

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38 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

I was thinking along the lines of, let's get some pennies in the coffers before winter. But I take you point.

This is info about the Red Lion.

 

https://www.findmypub.com/properties/view/21687

30k rent says it all. they will be asking over the top rent before negotiation and 30k rent is not a huge rent today. Its too small however to take serious money and relying on one week a year is hardly good business sense.

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16 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

30k rent says it all. they will be asking over the top rent before negotiation and 30k rent is not a huge rent today. Its too small however to take serious money and relying on one week a year is hardly good business sense.

Not in many circumstances, no - but when that week is guaranteed to be a huge money earner, whatever the weather, every year, then it surely is indeed reliable. That is the case with the two Cropredy pubs.

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7 minutes ago, Athy said:

Its too small however to take serious money

 

This is very true. There is only one small bar (most pubs seem to have two or one really large one except oddly, the Brasenose). On festival weekends I've seen the queue for the bar spilling out into the road outside.

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Photo from 2006 at the Old Oak Inn in Horsley Woodhouse. I was actually DJing, not serving beer, but I am told that I do look rather like a Mine host in this picture, I think! Note weskit, Southgate must have nicked the style from me.

Old Oak Inn March 2006 001.jpg

Edited by Athy

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7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

This is very true. There is only one small bar (most pubs seem to have two or one really large one except oddly, the Brasenose). On festival weekends I've seen the queue for the bar spilling out into the road outside.

The comment to which you replied wasn't made by me - miscredited I'm afraid. I think you'll find it was Mrsmelly's.

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1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

30k rent says it all. they will be asking over the top rent before negotiation and 30k rent is not a huge rent today. Its too small however to take serious money and relying on one week a year is hardly good business sense.

Wot I meant was, good to have a bit of a Brucie bonus at the start of a tenancy to assist through the quieter Autumn and winter periods. I'm naive but that naive to expect a week or so elevated levels of trade to last the whole year. 

 

When first visiting the Red Lion some thirteen years ago, I remember it being a successful public house. Since, I'm fairly sure it has gone through three tenants. Perhaps pubcos have gone more silly with their rents and tied products.

  • Greenie 1

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55 minutes ago, Athy said:

The comment to which you replied wasn't made by me - miscredited I'm afraid. I think you'll find it was Mrsmelly's.

 

Indeed it’s a bug in the software often commented on. Praps you could draw the attention of someone softy wary to it as previous attempts have failed to result in a fix. 

 

Much obliged! 

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2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

This is very true. There is only one small bar (most pubs seem to have two or one really large one except oddly, the Brasenose). On festival weekends I've seen the queue for the bar spilling out into the road outside.

There are things pubs can do to take proper advantage of festivals. The Anchor at Sidmouth turns their entire car park and garden into an outside music/dancing/bar area complete with outside bars (and several hundred barrels of beer stacked up along the car-park wall), and I've been told that they take about the same amount of money in festival week as the rest of the year combined -- at least, when they realised quite how much beer they'd need not to run out. I don't think the Red Lion has that much space (or as long a festival) but they do have a garden and car parking spaces which could presumably be repurposed for the week -- just adding a bigger outside real ale bar (and staff!) to the tiny inside bar could easily increase the amount of drink they could shift by 3x or 4x. If the landlord could be bothered...

Edited by IanD

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On 10/07/2018 at 12:34, Lily Rose said:

We're on the summit at the moment, it's fine.

 

I'm less confident for my return, which won't be until after the festival, but I'm not changing my plans on the off chance it won't be. I will be very interested to hear how it's holding up once we get into August.

 

Our 23" ( I think) draft got us through without problem when it was well down last summer so hopefully it will be be ok this year. At the moment I'm more concerned about the Thames, planning to get there in 8 to 10 days and be on it for a month.

Dateline Thursday 12 th @ 17.30 sitting in the Brasenose, Cropredy

4 Aug   Julie July Band

6 Aug   Gerry Colvin

7 Aug    15 String Trio

8 Aug     Vikki Clayton

All above in the evening

9 Aug @ noon I Am Sam

9 Aug @ 2 pm Clarion

9 Aug @  8 pm Doozer Mcdooze

10 Aug @ noon Keshanadram 

10 Aug @ 2pm Kaprekar's Constant

10 Aug @ 4 pm Zal Clemisons Sindogs

10 Aug @ 8 p m Pete Watkins Originals

11 Aug @ noon Cold Norton 

11 Aug @ 2 pm A Leatherat Reunion

11 Aug @ 4 pm Spank the Monkey

12 Aug @ noon Lota

12 Aug @ 2pm Red Soes

 

Never heard of any of them?

Should make clear all above at Brasenose, not Red Lion

Edited by Slim

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12 minutes ago, Slim said:

Dateline Thursday 12 th @ 17.30 sitting in the Brasenose, Cropredy

4 Aug   Julie July Band

6 Aug   Gerry Colvin

7 Aug    15 String Trio

8 Aug     Vikki Clayton

All above in the evening

9 Aug @ noon I Am Sam

9 Aug @ 2 pm Clarion

9 Aug @  8 pm Doozer Mcdooze

10 Aug @ noon Keshanadram 

10 Aug @ 2pm Kaprekar's Constant

10 Aug @ 4 pm Zal Clemisons Sindogs

10 Aug @ 8 p m Pete Watkins Originals

11 Aug @ noon Cold Norton 

11 Aug @ 2 pm A Leatherat Reunion

11 Aug @ 4 pm Spank the Monkey

12 Aug @ noon Lota

12 Aug @ 2pm Red Soes

 

Never heard of any of them?

Thanks for that info.

Spank The Monkey are a good, established local Chicago-style blues band. They have a hot harmonica player (John?) who left at one time but I think he's back with them. Pete Watkins is well spoken of though I don't think I've seen him "live". Leatherat was a most capable band who got as far as playing the festival's main stage, though their present name suggests that they have broken up. Vikki Clayton is probably the best-known name there: she has appeared with various Fairports, sometimes singing Sandy Denny songs with them, and Jethro Tulls and has released six or seven albums. Mérite un detour, as the Michelin Guide would say.

P.S: you're the Sideways Moorer of Cropredy, are you not?

Edited by Athy

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3 hours ago, Slim said:

Dateline Thursday 12 th @ 17.30 sitting in the Brasenose, Cropredy

4 Aug   Julie July Band

6 Aug   Gerry Colvin

7 Aug    15 String Trio

8 Aug     Vikki Clayton

All above in the evening

9 Aug @ noon I Am Sam

9 Aug @ 2 pm Clarion

9 Aug @  8 pm Doozer Mcdooze

10 Aug @ noon Keshanadram 

10 Aug @ 2pm Kaprekar's Constant

10 Aug @ 4 pm Zal Clemisons Sindogs

10 Aug @ 8 p m Pete Watkins Originals

11 Aug @ noon Cold Norton 

11 Aug @ 2 pm A Leatherat Reunion

11 Aug @ 4 pm Spank the Monkey

12 Aug @ noon Lota

12 Aug @ 2pm Red Soes

 

Never heard of any of them?

Should make clear all above at Brasenose, not Red Lion

Were you still in there at 1815? I was there with another forum member.

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3 hours ago, Athy said:

 

Spank The Monkey are a good, established local Chicago-style blues band. They have a hot harmonica player (John?) who left at one time but I think he's back with them.

Especially worth seeing when joined on stage by the legend that is Aunty Doreen...

 

33333

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1 hour ago, Nightwatch said:

Were you still in there at 1815? I was there with another forum member.

 

I was just wondering that too, given that I was that other forum member.

 

I suspect not though as we almost had the place to ourselves much of the time.

 

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8 hours ago, Athy said:

Not in many circumstances, no - but when that week is guaranteed to be a huge money earner, whatever the weather, every year, then it surely is indeed reliable. That is the case with the two Cropredy pubs.

Trust me. It is not possible to take enough money in seven days in a venue of a certain footprint for instance the size of a tiny pub like the red Lion to compensate for the other 358 days in a year most of which are not Fridays or Saturdays. The reason the lease is up for grabs yet again is the business will not support a decent lifestyle/working hours ratio. If it was worth all the hassle for the return it would never get anywhere near the likes of the companies pushing the lease on their websites.

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7 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

 The reason the lease is up for grabs yet again is the business will not support a decent lifestyle/working hours ratio. If it was worth all the hassle for the return it would never get anywhere near the likes of the companies pushing the lease on their websites.

Really? The word locally is that Steve the landlord is retiring - perhaps to spend more time on his Gardner 2L2 - engined tug moored at Appletree Farm.

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10 hours ago, Athy said:

Really? The word locally is that Steve the landlord is retiring - perhaps to spend more time on his Gardner 2L2 - engined tug moored at Appletree Farm.

Hes not been there two minutes does he still have the other pub I don't remember its name. The place has been dire for years and its never been remotely as good as the Brasenose. What always used to put me off was the poxy radio blaring out behind the bar and more recently being served by a young lady with a crying baby in the bar. Good pubs never get to be seen for grabs on line they are snapped up but the asking rent proves its doin nowt as it will be based on takings. I havnt been in since last October but its certainly not on my list of must visit pubs when passing, neither is the Brasenose but that is usualy ok. Pubs of course are a personal thing and some people actualy visit Wetherspoons ?

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16 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Hes not been there two minutes does he still have the other pub I don't remember its name. The place has been dire for years and its never been remotely as good as the Brasenose. What always used to put me off was the poxy radio blaring out behind the bar and more recently being served by a young lady with a crying baby in the bar. Good pubs never get to be seen for grabs on line they are snapped up but the asking rent proves its doin nowt as it will be based on takings. I havnt been in since last October but its certainly not on my list of must visit pubs when passing, neither is the Brasenose but that is usualy ok. Pubs of course are a personal thing and some people actualy visit Wetherspoons ?

No, he had the Bell at Bourton, next to that peculiar church with the separate spire, that closed but has recently reopened. I would say he has been there at least a year and a half - because we moved up one and took over his mooring when he moved his boat 'Siberia', which was about the same time that he took over the Red Lion.

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