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The dog lady

How much to spend

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Settle a 'point of discussion' please. Could more experienced boatsters tell me their opinion on a reasonable amount to spend on a first boat, assuming money not too much of an issue?

Looking at a boat for holidays, weekends, occasional longer cruises. Wanting to retain some of the investment so would the wisest buy be a 2009 luxury fit-out at £60K+ or an older £30K well-used example? Probably want to sell in 5-6 years.

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My opinion, given your two supplied options, is to go for a narrowboat and less than 12meters. Whatever your budget, lay half it down on the actual boat itself. The amount of unforeseen expense in the buying of a boat is ALWAYS underestimated.

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I would go the £30k option, sell it in a couple of years once you are well and truly hooked on boating and then spend the £60k on your second boat.

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1 hour ago, The dog lady said:

Settle a 'point of discussion' please. Could more experienced boatsters tell me their opinion on a reasonable amount to spend on a first boat, assuming money not too much of an issue?

Looking at a boat for holidays, weekends, occasional longer cruises. Wanting to retain some of the investment so would the wisest buy be a 2009 luxury fit-out at £60K+ or an older £30K well-used example? Probably want to sell in 5-6 years.

 

 

I love a new poster with a sense of humour!

 

More seriously, maintenance, mooring and general running costs will see you deeply underwater on the deal even if you get back what you paid for it in 5-6 years.

 

Don't do it if not losing money is important to you.

 

As shrewd "investments" go,  boat is very close to the bottom of the list, along with shares in ostrich farms.

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In very similar circumstances, apart from being a bit younger (c60 at the time), I opted to go down the £30k route rather than the £60k route. I could have afforded far more but I wasn't sure how much I wanted to commit to what might turn out to be a passing fad. 3 years later and no regrets. I occasionally think I should have spent more to get a bigger, rather than newer, boat but on the whole I'm very happy with what I decided and it hasn't turned out to be a phase.

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No doubt in my mind as a maritime Engineer - buy the best boat you can afford. 30k will get you a fixer-up: do you need that additional hassle? Buy a good 'un and get out there and enjoy it whilst you're fit enough. :)

 

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Investment and boat do not go in the same sentence.

 

you need to think of it in terms of

 

new fat boat throw gold bars in canal

new narrowboat throw silver bullion in canal

new mass produced narrowboat burn 50 notes to keep warm

30000 boat  cast 20 notes to the four winds

 

10000 boat expect methane  bubbles sell at 5000 to fixer upper so

 

last is best

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There will be a lot less unknowns on ten year old boat. A well maintained modern four cylinder diesel and prm gearbox, are good for many more hours then what could normally be accomplished in ten plus five years cruising. Likewise a ten year old hull in good condition should remain in good condition if the coatings and anode are looked after, and you avoid dodgy shore power hookups. You are also be likely to be much more comfortable with the newer standards of fit out and appliances and like owning a nice car there is something nice in owning a nice boat, PROVIDED that doing so does not prevent you taking it places that might result in scratches and bruises to the boat.

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There are regretably a lot of 10 to 15  year old skips on the canal caused by the boating boom from 2000 to 2008 , whose fittouts are failing , hulls are pitting and engineering is dubious. I looked at boats for friends a few years ago horrified, guards tack welded and filled ,  hulls wasting between frames,  distorted plates , rust in compartments, stained timbers and delaminating laminates, engines that had never had oil changes,  rust around windows and lash up electrics.

to be honest you need to be looking at the builder as much as anything,  in the mid mass produced market cts hudson and colecraft have followers and depreciate slowly.  However i have recent seen two hudsons for sale which were a complete mess of neglect  ( one was 65000 ) and showing signs of needing expensive rectification.

be aware sprayed shells in car paint,  are a potential problem to touch up and repaint, may need bare metal strip . I saw a boat that had been sprayed  at build 10 years ago in poland, the owner polished it every few months and had been quoted over 15000 to to repaint because of the potential for paint reaction.

a good survey invariably saves money.

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11 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

As shrewd "investments" go,  boat is very close to the bottom of the list, along with shares in ostrich farms.

Boats and boating  - the best value for money I ever spent.

12 hours ago, The dog lady said:

Settle a 'point of discussion' please. Could more experienced boatsters tell me their opinion on a reasonable amount to spend on a first boat, assuming money not too much of an issue?

Looking at a boat for holidays, weekends, occasional longer cruises. Wanting to retain some of the investment so would the wisest buy be a 2009 luxury fit-out at £60K+ or an older £30K well-used example? Probably want to sell in 5-6 years.

The amount of money spent is not so important . But buying a boat that will not be too great  a financial liability is important.

Do have pre purchase survey including a test run to mitigate against expensive surprises. But after that do expect faults to crop up from time to time . 

Most of all do make best use of the boat in order to get some value for money out of it.

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12 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

As shrewd "investments" go,  boat is very close to the bottom of the list, along with shares in ostrich farms.

Oi. I'll have you know our Ostrich farm is doing very well, thank you very much.

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A 2009 boat is still nearly 10 years old so the fit out will be well used. You may need to spend a lot more to get it where you want for 5-6 years use. We bought a 15 year old boat and spent £10k for new kitchen, dinette, bedroom and likely spend another £3k on a bathroom refit. All nice and cost inside now. Another £5k spent on 'bits'. Not expecting to get our money back but it is a Colecraft so looks in good nick.

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6 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Oi. I'll have you know our Ostrich farm is doing very well, thank you very much.

Are they the three legged variety. Good for Xmas dinner? 

035ostrich_468x538.jpg

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29 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

A 2009 boat is still nearly 10 years old so the fit out will be well used. You may need to spend a lot more to get it where you want for 5-6 years use. We bought a 15 year old boat and spent £10k for new kitchen, dinette, bedroom and likely spend another £3k on a bathroom refit. All nice and cost inside now. Another £5k spent on 'bits'. Not expecting to get our money back but it is a Colecraft so looks in good nick.

But did it NEED refitting or did you just want to change it to make your 15 year old boat look like a new one. Did the Kitchen dining area and bedroom still work OK, had the ceilings fallen down?

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5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But did it NEED refitting or did you just want to change it to make your 15 year old boat look like a new one. Did the Kitchen dining area and bedroom still work OK, had the ceilings fallen down?

No, it didn't need it. It just makes it so more fun to live in. My point was that there are other options to what you get for £60k.

 

......paid for by the Ostrich farm.

36 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Are they the three legged variety. Good for Xmas dinner? 

035ostrich_468x538.jpg

That's a haggis isn't it?

Edited by Dr Bob
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44 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Oi. I'll have you know our Ostrich farm is doing very well, thank you very much.

 

Are you SURE about that? Most ostrich farm investors have no idea how their investments are doing, preferring to take the 'head in the sand' approach.

 

Oh dammit. I see Rusty beat me to it, half an hour ago!

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For what it's worth, my opinion is to keep open minded, look around at available boats. You'll decide when you see the boat. Whatever plan you start out with will change.

 

our first boat, a 31' Mick Sivewrite (spellcheck) owl class. We bought for £15,000 and sold for £23,000, and this was after two years and three summers or so. Our present boat bought 13 years ago, done loads of work to it, lived on it fours years is sadly 13 years older. We, MAY, get our money back, maybe not. Starting to look like a lived on boat now. It does get admired. the admirer then pats their guidedog and walks away.

 

Get out and about look at boats. Enjoy the process. You don't want to be spending time repairing and sorting things instead of cruising and enjoying life.

 

Edit to ad, like the Ostrich farmer did, stick your neck out and just do it. 

 

Edited by Nightwatch
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We haven't really spent anything serious on our 15 (now 18) year old boat apart from adding solar panels. 

 

It's not perfect, and no doubt it would be  nicer if we spent £000's on a new kitchen or bathroom, but we bought it because we like it as it was and it was a helluva lot better than the same-money boats we saw at a well known broker near the Buckby flight.

 

By the way Martyn (and Tim, if you're watching) we've finally/belatedly, due to the heat, started heading south to the Thames. About to do the Napton flight and aim to be in the Oxford area in about 10 days. No rush, it's meant to be a life of leisure!

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We are just south of Cropredy. Been here three nights now. Doing maintenance on poor old Nightwatch. It's all hidden stuff so doesn't look any better. Took the cratch 'A' frame off and de-rusted and painted. Replaced at 2100 last night. Oh! How we love boating. 

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14 hours ago, The dog lady said:

Settle a 'point of discussion' please. Could more experienced boatsters tell me their opinion on a reasonable amount to spend on a first boat, assuming money not too much of an issue?

Looking at a boat for holidays, weekends, occasional longer cruises. Wanting to retain some of the investment so would the wisest buy be a 2009 luxury fit-out at £60K+ or an older £30K well-used example? Probably want to sell in 5-6 years.

The way the market is these days a £30,000 boat probably isn't going to lose much value over the next few years, not so with a boat costing twice as much.  So if you know next to nothing about narrowboats £25-30k is probably about the right place to start.  But almost inevitably you would want to trade up after maybe a couple of years, assuming you have the money.  You might get a £30k boat that you would be happy with for 5-6 years but I doubt it.  

 

Also, because of the state of the market, brokers at the moment are being highly optimistic with their pricing and a novice buying a boat at £60k+ stands a good chance of being ripped off, even with surveyors advice. 

 

For £30k I'd try and find a 45 footer with a Beta engine and a standard layout, doesn't matter who built it provided it's a recognised name.  Something like that you'll be able to sell again with no trouble in a couple of years, probably for what you paid for it.  The only snag is such a boat is going to be around 25 years old so you need to have a really good look at the hull and I don't mean just a steel thickness survey.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, The dog lady said:

Thanks to everyone who replied and for all the advice. It seems buying a boat as a novice is a minefield.

No - buying a boat as an expert is a minefield and it's all downhill from there!  As much as anything, the boat picks you.  View a few and see what grabs you, then find a surveyor you trust to represent you.

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20 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

No - buying a boat as an expert is a minefield and it's all downhill from there!  As much as anything, the boat picks you.  View a few and see what grabs you, then find a surveyor you trust to represent you.

 

^^^This^^^

 

Once the boat has decided you are buying it, the job of your surveyor is to point out all the reasons not to buy the boat, then help you develop ways of kidding yourself than in this particular case, those reasons can be set aside and ignored or worked around. 

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2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

^^^This^^^

 

Once the boat has decided you are buying it, the job of your surveyor is to point out all the reasons not to buy the boat, then help you develop ways of kidding yourself than in this particular case, those reasons can be set aside and ignored or worked around. 

Our surveyor said, “if you don’t buy it, I will!”, although he didn’t record that in his written report.

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