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Insurance question


JB Segal

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For the boat I’m borrowing in a couple of weeks, my cousin (son of the owner) has been quoted this about insurance and breakdown service:

Breakdown can be added on at £40 for Membership, £85 for 3 call outs a year or £100 for 3 callouts a year including recovery.

 

Can anyone explain what these 3 amounts are? Most notably, is “membership” likely to be in addition to the callouts “packages” or is it a separate tier in some way?

 

Thanks...

 

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Is the boat already insured ?

Is it already licenced on the inland waterways, in which case it should already have insurance ?

 

Most (all ?) Inland waterways insurance tends to cover the owner and 'any person with permission'. I have never heard of having to insure a boat you are borrowing.

 

I think there is either something 'funny' going one, or there is a little more background to the story than you have detailed in your question.

 

Is this an 'informal' hire of a mates boat ?

Is money changing hands ?

is it really just a 'few days borrowing' ?

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2 hours ago, JB Segal said:

For the boat I’m borrowing in a couple of weeks, my cousin (son of the owner) has been quoted this about insurance and breakdown service:

Breakdown can be added on at £40 for Membership, £85 for 3 call outs a year or £100 for 3 callouts a year including recovery.

 

Can anyone explain what these 3 amounts are? Most notably, is “membership” likely to be in addition to the callouts “packages” or is it a separate tier in some way?

 

Thanks...

 

The membership tier is there so that they will come out without any hassle (otherwise there will be a charge or you'll be told to Foxtrot Oscar -'go away' ) the other two mean that you won't be charged for the attendance(s) plus any extra costs (if any)

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12 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You could well be correct (but I wouldn't call it insurance, just breakdown cover).

Same as for cars, lots of insurance companies (should that really be brokers) also offer breakdown cover.

Edited by Robbo
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5 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Same as for cars, lots of insurance companies (should that really be brokers) also offer breakdown cover.

I know, I was just not understanding when the OP said it was insurance and you could add 'breakdown'.

I just wondered why he needed insurance.

 

It doesn't matter anyway - if its RCR he is asking about then he will no doubt get the answer he is looking for (eventually)

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I just wondered why he needed insurance.

Missed that, aye the boat should already be insuranced if licenced.  The ‘driver’ doesn’t need to be insured like you do when driving on the road,

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Until this is fully clarified I would advise extreme caution. This sounds too much like part of an unofficial hire arrangement rather than simply borrowing and if so any "insurance" bought might very well be deemed invalid in the case of a claim. In the worst case you could be left to pay for many thousands of pounds worth of damage or loss.. You need to clarify why this is being offered a  dhow much this " borrow" is going to cost you.

 

Basically if you are required to pay then its a hire and the boat needs a different Boat safety Scheme inspection and very different reinsurance & licensing to a private boat. When close friends and family BORROW our boat it is made absolutely clear the only payment allowed is for the fuel and any gas bottle that runs out. I will never take any money. I pay for the insurance, ensuring it covers such lending. I cover any breakdowns and on occasions It includes suitable RCR membership.

 

As I said take great care - it sounds a bit fishy to me.

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You could well be correct (but I wouldn't call it insurance, just breakdown cover).

I belong to Green Flag for car breakdown cover, and it seems to be "insurance", as I have just received the renewal and it includes insurance premium tax as part of the fee.

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2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Until this is fully clarified I would advise extreme caution. This sounds too much like part of an unofficial hire arrangement rather than simply borrowing and if so any "insurance" bought might very well be deemed invalid in the case of a claim. In the worst case you could be left to pay for many thousands of pounds worth of damage or loss.. You need to clarify why this is being offered a  dhow much this " borrow" is going to cost you.

 

Basically if you are required to pay then its a hire and the boat needs a different Boat safety Scheme inspection and very different reinsurance & licensing to a private boat. When close friends and family BORROW our boat it is made absolutely clear the only payment allowed is for the fuel and any gas bottle that runs out. I will never take any money. I pay for the insurance, ensuring it covers such lending. I cover any breakdowns and on occasions It includes suitable RCR membership.

 

As I said take great care - it sounds a bit fishy to me.

It’s a loan from my cousins, of the boat their mother has owned for the last 20 years (and lived on 7 months of the year during that time) that they’re selling as soon as I’m off of it. Or maybe sooner, I hope not.

 

This all comes up in that they are asking me to pay them back for the license and insurance for the time I’m using it, as it would be sitting moored in a marina until it’s sold, and as I’m American, the precise terminology used in UK insurance, roadside canal assistance, and so on is new to me.

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17 minutes ago, JB Segal said:

It’s a loan from my cousins, of the boat their mother has owned for the last 20 years (and lived on 7 months of the year during that time) that they’re selling as soon as I’m off of it. Or maybe sooner, I hope not.

 

This all comes up in that they are asking me to pay them back for the license and insurance for the time I’m using it, as it would be sitting moored in a marina until it’s sold, and as I’m American, the precise terminology used in UK insurance, roadside canal assistance, and so on is new to me.

Unfortunately (for you) the law has decided that if you pay for the use of a boat it has now become a commercial transaction and the boat then becomes subject to different legislation, namely :

 

1) The boat must be examined (safety certificate) to a much higher standard than a 'private boat'.

2) The Canal & River trust licence required is now a commercial / business licence not a private licence.

3) The insurance cover required is now 'Business cover for hire and reward'.

 

There are all sorts of sub-requirements but they are 'small fry'.

 

I suggest that you sort something out with your cousin and just 'forget about hiring this boat' (know what I mean John ?)

Maybe try & just borrow a boat from a friend for a few days / weeks and enjoy a trip to our 'green & pleasant land'.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Unfortunately (for you) the law has decided that if you pay for the use of a boat it has now become a commercial transaction and the boat then becomes subject to different legislation,

 

Not so sure.  It is accepted practice that paying legitimate costs, such as fuel, with no markup does not constitute hiring. So it could be argued that paying for the licence and insurance is also acceptable, as long as it is clear that there is no element of 'profit' for the boatowner. 

 

On the other hand, for a family deal, surely it is better if the boat and the associated licence, insurance, breakdown cover etc. remain in the name of the owner, and the OP just borrows the boat with the owner's consent (and pays the supplier directly for any fuel he puts in the tank or gas bottles he buys).  And if the OP then wants to make a gift to the boatowner, that is an entirely separate matter!

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7 hours ago, David Mack said:

On the other hand, for a family deal, surely it is better if the boat and the associated licence, insurance, breakdown cover etc. remain in the name of the owner, and the OP just borrows the boat with the owner's consent (and pays the supplier directly for any fuel he puts in the tank or gas bottles he buys).  And if the OP then wants to make a gift to the boatowner, that is an entirely separate matter!

That is what I was suggesting, but, without spelling out the detail.

 

Once your plans are posted on the Internet, the Genie is out of the bottle and cannot be retracted.

 

JB - maybe best if you cancel the whole arrangement and start again.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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"Gifting" an amount of cash is the way to go. My family and friends borrowed my boat many times, the only stipulation being they left a full fuel tank, full gas bottles and fixed any damage/replaced broken items, if they felt the need to give me a cash early birthday present, that was very sweet of them.

As has been said previously in this thread DO NOT go down the route of paying for the use of the boat - that is a nest of vipers that could very well bite you in an extremely sensitive place (hope you liked the mixed metaphor!). Nine times out of ten it would not matter, but that tenth time could end you and them in court.

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