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Lack of platforms at locks


GuyBarry

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4 hours ago, Jerra said:

The trouble with inexperience is you can't change it without experience.  If you don't allow inexperienced crews to work locks they never gain experience.

Indeed.  From the C&RT's information sheet about volunteer lock keepers:

"You need to be happy working outdoors and enjoy working with the public. You will be trained in the operation of locks, however some previous knowledge can be helpful."  (My boldface)

Gained how?

 

I think I prevented another accident today - the crew were coming down and obviously stoned out of their heads.  The steerer had his bow right up underneath the walkway at the lower end.  His colleague enthusiastically shoved the paddle up.  I did nothing on my side and went back and told the steerer to reverse away from the gates.  He went a little way but not far.  Eventually his colleague went back and pulled the boat away clear of the gates.

 

No doubt some members of this forum would say that I should have let them get on with it, but I'm not that callous.

 

The nicest thing that happened to me today was that I helped a couple of single-handers (who were travelling together) up through the lock, and then helped someone else back down.  I recognized her - she used to work at a pub where I was a regular.  She said to me "those guys said you were good".

 

I'd really rather listen to the opinions of people who I actually deal with at the lock rather than random people elsewhere in the country.

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44 minutes ago, GuyBarry said:

 

I think I prevented another accident today - the crew were coming down and obviously stoned out of their heads.  The steerer had his bow right up underneath the walkway at the lower end.  His colleague enthusiastically shoved the paddle up.  I did nothing on my side and went back and told the steerer to reverse away from the gates. 

 

And what exactly is the risk of the bow being under the walkway when the lock is being emptied?

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10 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

And what exactly is the risk of the bow being under the walkway when the lock is being emptied?

 

Quite!  (If it happenned as described).

 

Once can only marvel that there have not been dozens of incidents and even sinkings at this particular lock when Guy has not been there.

 

Or that there are not at countless  other locks throughout the country where he is not.........

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21 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

I think the immediate working area of locks should be marked out where practical by a purely nominal fence with a simple sign saying that members of the public entering this working area of the lock whilst a boat is being locked through do so at their own risk

This is pretty much how the EA deal with their locks except the sign says "access for boat crews only" or words to that effect and its a very good way of doing it, keeps the riffraff out.

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Just now, Loddon said:

This is pretty much how the EA deal with their locks except the sign says "access for boat crews only" or words to that effect and its a very good way of doing it, keeps the riffraff out.

What, like people not attached to a boat?

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2 minutes ago, Loddon said:

This is pretty much how the EA deal with their locks except the sign says "access for boat crews only" or words to that effect and its a very good way of doing it, keeps the riffraff out.

Guy wouldn't like that.

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3 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Guy wouldn't like that.

Surely the point is that if someone is helping with permission they are temporarily a member of that boat's crew, and so are allowed in. If they are not helping with permission, then they should stay outside the perimeter.  The fence at Camden Lock in London is essential by the way....

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22 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

I think the immediate working area of locks should be marked out where practical by a purely nominal fence with a simple sign saying that members of the public entering this working area of the lock whilst a boat is being locked through do so at their own risk.

I am confident that the current arrangement of having industrial equipment available to possibly totally ignorant members of the general public will not persist for another decade.

It is not like roads/pavements in that it can be assumed that all members of the public are aware of the dangers of these or are in the care of those that are.  

No, no and thrice no

 

The EA approach causes more problems than it solves, not least because however nominal the fence, you can't walk though it, this makes it difficult to get clear of the lock as well as to get at it. Getting the width of the operational area right, and balancing that with the width available to non-boaters isn't always practical. To do this in, say, Farmers Bridge Locks would mean either a very narrow through route for pedestrians or a very narrow operational area for boaters. 

 

Fences are probably necessary where crowds gather by canals, such as at Camden Lock - elsewhere they get in the way: thet get in the way of people following innocent pastimes like photography and of those working the canal. They also get in the way of emergency services when an accident does happen.

 

I've quoted this before, Bath deep lock originally had a fence. A boat got cilled in it and the fire service cut the fences off so they could get equipment in. The fences did not and could  not have prevented the cilling (surely one of the more common accidents in locks) but they can get in the way of the recovery. 

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22 hours ago, Heartland said:

System 4-50 has raised an important issue, which is should the inexperienced be allowed to work locks. In this modern world of health and safety requirements, there is a case for the canal owners, be it CRT, Peel Ports, IWA etc to have rules and regulations in place and maybe the signage might be more prominent where it exists.

 

Canal guides such as Nicholsons do provide instructions for lock procedure. Hire boaters are generally briefed by the boat yard and there are now much more information available on the internet which modern phones can access. 

it just like why cyclists don't have licences etc.

 

people need to be encouraged to go boating. making potential hirers go on a £500 helmsman course and their crew on a £100 lock training day would be devastating to the hire business and the canals in general.

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20 minutes ago, thebfg said:

it just like why cyclists don't have licences etc.

 

people need to be encouraged to go boating. making potential hirers go on a £500 helmsman course and their crew on a £100 lock training day would be devastating to the hire business and the canals in general.

 

Swerving off at a tangent, back in the day when I was a child ISTR my grandfather telling me he never took a driving test to get his licence. When they were first introduced all one had to do to get a driving licence was to write in asking for one. The driving test came later. 

 

Is this true or was he telling me one of his HUGE porkie pies?

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1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Swerving off at a tangent, back in the day when I was a child ISTR my grandfather telling me he never took a driving test to get his licence. When they were first introduced all one had to do to get a driving licence was to write in asking for one. The driving test came later. 

 

Is this true or was he telling me one of his HUGE porkie pies?

1934 the test was introduced but not mandatory untill a year later. I believe and I will stand corrected if wrong that anyone driving prior to 1934 was allowed, no pun intended grand father rights to continue using the licence they had as you say just asked to have.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Swerving off at a tangent, back in the day when I was a child ISTR my grandfather telling me he never took a driving test to get his licence. When they were first introduced all one had to do to get a driving licence was to write in asking for one. The driving test came later. 

 

Is this true or was he telling me one of his HUGE porkie pies?

My father learnt to drive as part of his National Service in the 1950s, but never had to take a test. Wikipedia gives a rather different story.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_driving_test

as does something more official

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/history-of-road-safety-and-the-driving-test/history-of-road-safety-the-highway-code-and-the-driving-test

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Yes, that's correct. When I was a boy I can remember one elderly relative whose driving was, at best, idiosyncratic, and my Dad explaining to me that said relative had never taken a driving test because he was already a driver by 1935, or whenever the exact date was.

 

I think, though I am on shakier ground here, that people who learned to drive as military personnel during WW2 did not need to take a civilian driving test when they came out of the forces after the war. Dad passed his test around 1956 and said that if he'd been able to buy a car upon emerging from the Royal Artillery in 1946 he wouldn't have had to take it.

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My step dad, who was born in 1911, never took a civilian driving test but he took both an HGV and PSV license test in order to drive those vehicles. 

 

During WW2 one of his tasks was driving Hamilcar Gliders to airbases. He used to have to weave down some streets in order to avoid the lampposts. 

 

The grandfather rights thing is why I can drive a 3.5T trailer but my younger next door neighbour can’t unless he takes a towing test. 

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43 minutes ago, Athy said:

Yes, that's correct. When I was a boy I can remember one elderly relative whose driving was, at best, idiosyncratic, and my Dad explaining to me that said relative had never taken a driving test because he was already a driver by 1935, or whenever the exact date was.

 

I think, though I am on shakier ground here, that people who learned to drive as military personnel during WW2 did not need to take a civilian driving test when they came out of the forces after the war. Dad passed his test around 1956 and said that if he'd been able to buy a car upon emerging from the Royal Artillery in 1946 he wouldn't have had to take it.

I knew army personal had certain  exceptions from holding licences for some classes, I did not realise how far those exceptions went.

 

quite interesting 

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On 09/07/2018 at 11:33, nicknorman said:

 

The modern ill of putting signs everywhere is untenable. There will always be some unsigned hazard and anyway the more fatuous signs there are, the more people don't even see them let alone read and understand them. Look at how many fishermen one sees on the canal fishing right beside the "no fishing due to overhead power lines" signs.

 

 I thought that fishermen ignored the "no fishing due to overhead power lines" signs to add a little excitement to their dull "sport". ?

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3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Swerving off at a tangent, back in the day when I was a child ISTR my grandfather telling me he never took a driving test to get his licence. When they were first introduced all one had to do to get a driving licence was to write in asking for one. The driving test came later. 

 

Is this true or was he telling me one of his HUGE porkie pies?

Same applied to both my Grandads.

3 hours ago, WotEver said:

The grandfather rights thing is why I can drive a 3.5T trailer but my younger next door neighbour can’t unless he takes a towing test. 

My son in law can, but my daughter can't -- the cut-off point must have been in the late 1990s.

I have grandfather rights to drive a motorcycle of unlimited power. I passed my m/c test in 1971!

..but haven't ridden one for nearly 40 years.

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4 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Swerving off at a tangent, back in the day when I was a child ISTR my grandfather telling me he never took a driving test to get his licence. When they were first introduced all one had to do to get a driving licence was to write in asking for one. The driving test came later. 

 

Is this true or was he telling me one of his HUGE porkie pies?

My mother got a driving licence during the war, when driving tests were suspended. Allowed her to drive virtually anything.

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1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said:

Same applied to both my Grandads.

My son in law can, but my daughter can't -- the cut-off point must have been in the late 1990s.

I have grandfather rights to drive a motorcycle of unlimited power. I passed my m/c test in 1971!

..but haven't ridden one for nearly 40 years.

I believe 1st Jan 1997. 7 days before my 17th birthday?

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8 hours ago, thebfg said:

it just like why cyclists don't have licences etc.

 

people need to be encouraged to go boating. making potential hirers go on a £500 helmsman course and their crew on a £100 lock training day would be devastating to the hire business and the canals in general.

Even the French realised that

7 hours ago, WotEver said:

My step dad, who was born in 1911, never took a civilian driving test but he took both an HGV and PSV license test in order to drive those vehicles. 

 

During WW2 one of his tasks was driving Hamilcar Gliders to airbases. He used to have to weave down some streets in order to avoid the lampposts. 

 

The grandfather rights thing is why I can drive a 3.5T trailer but my younger next door neighbour can’t unless he takes a towing test. 

Now I have turned 70 and had to have one of those bits of plastic to replace my driving licence, because I did it on line I can't drive a Minibus, if I had done it by post I could have

 

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11 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Even the French realised that

Now I have turned 70 and had to have one of those bits of plastic to replace my driving licence, because I did it on line I can't drive a Minibus, if I had done it by post I could have

 

Yup. I intend to do mine by post and keep everything I can. Including my bike license even though I last rode one in anger in 1982. 

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