Running the engine

[Midnight]

A thread on the 'other place' reminded me of a recent incident which left me somewhat bemused. On a recent trip up the L&L we moored at Skipton just up from the junction with Springs Branch. It was 1pm and I started the engine to charge the batteries. A few minutes later a chap living in the new flats behind summons me from the veranda and tells me it's now illegal to run the engine there and hands me a printed page from the 'considerate boater' website. "I need to charge the batteries" says I so he tells me he's going to report me (?). He reappears on the veranda a few minutes later telephone to his ear and reading my registration number. He then says "Oh he's been reported before has he" (???) I suspect he's on the phone to nobody as I definitely haven't been reported before. Wondering what to do as I am a very amenable chap, I noticed an empty mooring on the Springs branch opposite so decided to take the least stress option and move over. Got me thinking what's the validity of his claim?

Edited July 2, 2018 by Midnight

[larryjc]

Sounds like b****cks to me.  Your CRT licence allows engines/gennies until 2000.  I would have told him to sod off (politely of course).

[Jim Riley]

You can't move onto the springs branch to run your gennie, my daughter lives there just beyond the bridge, I'll tell her her rights and lend her a long 10mm drill! 

[Momac]

48 minutes ago, larryjc said:

 Your CRT licence allows engines/gennies until 2000.  

I didn't know that was the case - but seems to be a bylaw.

 

1 hour ago, Midnight said:

 It was 1pm and I started the engine to charge the batteries. 

Since it was between 8am and 8pm it permitted.

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/mooring/mooring-faqs

 

.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, MartynG said:

 

Since it was between 8am and 8pm it permitted.

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/mooring/mooring-faqs

 

 

That's not quite what it says is it? From your link:

 

"no running of engines or generators before 8am or after 8pm and be mindful of smoke from stoves and exhaust fumes and noise from engines and generators, particularly in built up areas."

[Momac]

The 'rules' could be summarised as saying be considerate to others at all times .

I have been forced to move off a mooring by an inconsiderate  narrowboat owner . The narrowboat owner started up his wood burning stove which choked us out and stated to deposit soot on our nice clean boat.  

 

 

 

[mrsmelly]

Moored in Kintbury day before yesterday next to the " Quiet zone " please  be considerate blah blah blah signs. A round 8pm horrendous loud music started to emanate  from a party/wedding party in a marque 100 yds from the cut. It blasted out the whole village till 11.30pm.  Whilst I never run my engine out of permitted hours I also never take notice of Quiet zones.The noisey lawnmowers in gardens next to the cut are the best ones in the summer in " Quiet" zones ?

[alan_fincher]

11 hours ago, MartynG said:

I didn't know that was the case - but seems to be a bylaw.

 

Since it was between 8am and 8pm it permitted.

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/mooring/mooring-faqs

 

.

 

I don't think there is any bye-law that requires it.

 

It is simply something CRT publish as part of their conditions.

 

You then get into the argument about if the bye-laws allow CRT to set conditions, are you breaching the bye-laws if you breach that condition.

 

We are then in "lime green boat" territory - if CRT make a licence condition of no boats of this colour, are you breaking a bye-law by painting your boat lime green?

[Midnight]

45 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Moored in Kintbury day before yesterday next to the " Quiet zone " please  be considerate blah blah blah signs. A round 8pm horrendous loud music started to emanate  from a party/wedding party in a marque 100 yds from the cut. It blasted out the whole village till 11.30pm.  Whilst I never run my engine out of permitted hours I also never take notice of Quiet zones.The noisey lawnmowers in gardens next to the cut are the best ones in the summer in " Quiet" zones ?

Funny thing is I didn't see any "Quiet Zone" signs at Skipton. I understand from locals that the gentleman in question had only recently moved in. Reminds me of something to do with church bells. I suspect he will have a lot of stress living there especially when it gets colder and boaters light their stoves. Oh and for good measure the following day the church bells were rung loudly for quite awhile and would have drowned out the noise of my Beta 43.

[alan_fincher]

If CRT have introduced a "quiet zone", it should be clearly signed.

 

Two possibilties exist though....

 

1) Resident has printed details of quiet zone from internet, but he doesn't actually live near one.

2) Visiting boaters have taken down signs that should be there.

 

They obviously have no legal status, and your compliance is only voluntary.

 

That said, I would comply if it's marked as uch, because I see no point in builing conflict, and there are 99.9% of moorings available that are not quiet zones that I can use instead.

[Midnight]

4 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

 

That said, I would comply if it's marked as uch, because I see no point in builing conflict, and there are 99.9% of moorings available that are not quiet zones that I can use instead.

I did in this case because it was less stress for me to move across to the Springs Branch mooring than sit wonderin about it all. Life's too short sometimes.

[Boater Sam]

He would not of heard my engine. I respect quiet zones but have found that I am in a minority, the locals don't.

[mayalld]

14 hours ago, Midnight said:

A thread on the 'other place' reminded me of a recent incident which left me somewhat bemused. On a recent trip up the L&L we moored at Skipton just up from the junction with Springs Branch. It was 1pm and I started the engine to charge the batteries. A few minutes later a chap living in the new flats behind summons me from the veranda and tells me it's now illegal to run the engine there and hands me a printed page from the 'considerate boater' website. "I need to charge the batteries" says I so he tells me he's going to report me (?). He reappears on the veranda a few minutes later telephone to his ear and reading my registration number. He then says "Oh he's been reported before has he" (???) I suspect he's on the phone to nobody as I definitely haven't been reported before. Wondering what to do as I am a very amenable chap, I noticed an empty mooring on the Springs branch opposite so decided to take the least stress option and move over. Got me thinking what's the validity of his claim?

I would run your engine again, and await his return to tell you that it is illegal.

 

When he does, hand him a letter;

 

Dear Sir,

 

I refer to your repeated claims that it is "illegal" to run my boat's engine whilst moored in Skipton, and would comment as follows;

 

1) The "Considerate Boater" website that you handed me an extract from is simply an opinion as to how one should behave considerately. It has no force in law, and not everybody agrees with everything that is written there.

2) Any restriction on running engines (or more commonly a request not to run engines) would be advised to boaters by official signage, not by a local resident handing out leaflets.

3) It is a condition of our boat licences that we do not run engines whilst moored between 8pm and 8am. Outside those times, there is no restriction.

 

I would also refer to your conduct, in that you have;

1) Made assertions that something is illegal when it is not, in order to induce me to stop carrying out a legal activity

2) Made great show of making a telephone call to report me for running my engine, a call which apparently included the relevant authority telling you that I had been reported for this before. As divulging any information such as this to you would be a breach of data protection law, I am inclined to believe that this "phone call" was in fact simply a performance to induce me to do as you wish.

 

I must therefore point out that whilst running engines is NOT illegal, harassment IS.

 

I would advise you that I regard your actions as harassment, and that should there be any further repetition, it is my intention to make a formal complaint under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997

 

Yours etc.

 

 

[WotEver]

47 minutes ago, mayalld said:

I would run your engine again, and await his return to tell you that it is illegal.

 

When he does, hand him a letter;

 

Dear Sir,

 

I refer to your repeated claims that it is "illegal" to run my boat's engine whilst moored in Skipton, and would comment as follows;

 

1) The "Considerate Boater" website that you handed me an extract from is simply an opinion as to how one should behave considerately. It has no force in law, and not everybody agrees with everything that is written there.

2) Any restriction on running engines (or more commonly a request not to run engines) would be advised to boaters by official signage, not by a local resident handing out leaflets.

3) It is a condition of our boat licences that we do not run engines whilst moored between 8pm and 8am. Outside those times, there is no restriction.

 

I would also refer to your conduct, in that you have;

1) Made assertions that something is illegal when it is not, in order to induce me to stop carrying out a legal activity

2) Made great show of making a telephone call to report me for running my engine, a call which apparently included the relevant authority telling you that I had been reported for this before. As divulging any information such as this to you would be a breach of data protection law, I am inclined to believe that this "phone call" was in fact simply a performance to induce me to do as you wish.

 

I must therefore point out that whilst running engines is NOT illegal, harassment IS.

 

I would advise you that I regard your actions as harassment, and that should there be any further repetition, it is my intention to make a formal complaint under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997

 

Yours etc.

 

 

Or just move...

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Or just move...

 

I thought that too. If ever there was a case of 'life's too short'...

 

 

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I thought that too. If ever there was a case of 'life's too short'...

Yup. 

[mayalld]

11 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I thought that too. If ever there was a case of 'life's too short'...

 

 

I would probably move on fairly soon, because I would be doing that anyway.

 

However, I wouldn't agree with the whole "life's too short" comment.

 

It is important that bullies shouldn't "win". If bullies actually gain an advantage by their behaviour, then they will bully others. If their bullying doesn't work, and it causes them pain in return, they will think again.

[MtB]

11 minutes ago, mayalld said:

It is important that bullies shouldn't "win". If bullies actually gain an advantage by their behaviour, then they will bully others. If their bullying doesn't work, and it causes them pain in return, they will think again.

 

I think you are being hopelessly naive here. This looks to me like somebody trying to pick a fight. He would like nothing better than to engage in a war with a boater over it. 

[mrsmelly]

43 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Yup. 

Having at present spent a month or so on the K and A lots of moorings are now " Quiet zones " such as Kintbury  yesterday. There is no where else to moor unless you think you should jump through reeds onto a  collapsing bank in  order not to charge your batteries via a hospital silencer at said quiet zone vms? We make less noise than the bricks and mortar brigade who have not been forced by  any laws to live next to a canal where it is completely legal to charge batteries. If on a canal such as the T and M as a for instance there are thousands of choices to moor away from quiet zones but not on all the system.

[Robbo]

I would take a photo of him, and if he asks why say.  Reporting to the police for harassment.

[mayalld]

12 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I think you are being hopelessly naive here. This looks to me like somebody trying to pick a fight. He would like nothing better than to engage in a war with a boater over it. 

I may well be slightly idealistic here (but not naïve!)

 

However, I still believe that it is important that those who would take what is not theirs (and trying to prevent others going about their lawful business is just that) should be resisted.

 

I also believe that for so long as they get what they want, they WILL continue to behave in that way. If they don't get what they want, and it causes them pain, they may well still do it, but perhaps they won't.

 

Those who have been around forever may recall the Stalybridge Harridan some 15 years ago;

 

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/uk.rec.waterways/8c0PoURCcaE/YrobuUWx08sJ

 

People continued to moor outside her house, perhaps in greater numbers than before, and she got short shrift from those she remonstrated with, and eventually gave up.

 

[MtB]

Nice to see people moaning about top posting in that thread!!

 

The internet was far better back then.

[mayalld]

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Nice to see people moaning about top posting in that thread!!

 

The internet was far better back then.

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be though!

[dmr]

26 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Having at present spent a month or so on the K and A lots of moorings are now " Quiet zones " such as Kintbury  yesterday. There is no where else to moor unless you think you should jump through reeds onto a  collapsing bank in  order not to charge your batteries via a hospital silencer at said quiet zone vms? We make less noise than the bricks and mortar brigade who have not been forced by  any laws to live next to a canal where it is completely legal to charge batteries. If on a canal such as the T and M as a for instance there are thousands of choices to moor away from quiet zones but not on all the system.

Might well be wrong, but think the very first quiet zone was just East of the Barge Inn (Honeystreet) visitor moorings opposite the nice row of houses and came about due to a lot of after Barge (and pre-Barge) partying. I thought it was aimed at loud music and possibly cheap generators rather than to prevent engine running.

 

...............Dave

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, mayalld said:

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be though!

 

I've had this conversation many times. Its like deja vu all over again.