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BSS inspection

sixbytwelve
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Alan de Enfield Veteran II

Alan de Enfield

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Robbo said:

No, for private boats there is only one BSS level

 

 

There is only one 'private BSS' but some examiners are not registered to do 'liveaboards' so, in effect there are two BSS Standards for private boats.

 

It is advised (in the examiners guidelines) to ask if the boat is a liveaboard or not, as many surveyors are not allowed to undertake gas tests unless there is a bubble tested installed.

 

Extract from the examiners notes :

 

Carrying out 'work on the gas system of boats used primarily for residential or domestic purposes fall within scope of a piece of  UK legislation known as the Gas Safety [Installation and Use] Regulations (GSIUR).

As such, the law demands that anyone contracted to 'work' on the LPG system of a boat in scope must be (LPG boats-competent) Gas Safe registered.

As the definition of 'work' covers the removal and replacement of a screw nipple on a gas test point, the scope of the GSIUR includes carrying out BSS LPG tightness test.

Therefore, on a boat in scope of GSIUR, examiners who are not Gas Safe registered can only complete check 7.12.2 (confirming gas tightness) by either:

  • undertaking a gas tightness test using a bubble tester where fitted and correctly located; or,
  • observing the tightness test conducted by a (LPG boats-competent) Gas Safe registered installer

Does a Bubble Tester do away with the need for a Gas Safe registered engineer testing the gas system on residential boats?

Yes, because any BSS Examiner can check for leaks using a fully functioning and appropriately located bubble tester. It is the case however that there is no BSS requirement for a bubble tester and so fitting one is matter of boat owner choice.

Note that all other types of gas work, such as adding or replacing an appliance, needs to be conducted by a Gas Safe registered engineer with the LPG boat competence listed on his/her identity card.

Is it recommended that boat owners fit a bubble tester?

Yes, fitting a bubble tester in the LPG cylinder locker is strongly recommended because it allows owners to check for leaks themselves and so enjoy piece of mind in between BSS Examinations. It is very important that fitting bubble testers on residential boats (and private leisure boats) is done by a LPG boat-competent Gas Safe registered engineer.

This is because the bubble tester must be correctly located and oriented, and for large volume LPG systems, the engineer may need to install a bypass arrangement to allow gas to flow past the bubble tester when it is not being used.

Are there any other alternatives to allow non Gas Safe registered BSS Examiners to check residential boat gas systems?

Unfortunately there are only two methods that can be used to check for gas leaks on boats (manometer leak check and bubble tester check). The only other alternative is for the non-Gas Safe registered BSS Examiner to observe a manometer leak check conducted by a LPG boat-competent Gas Safe registered engineer.

 

The examiners who are not on the Gas Safe register are advised as part of their initial dealings with owners to ask in advance of turning up at the mooring, about the status of the craft.

To avoid falling foul of UK law and avoiding criminal prosecution they need to find out whether the boat's use will mean they should not carry out a tightness-test using a manometer.  They may ask the following questions, just for their own personal record:

  • Is the boat hired out in the course of a business?
  • Is the boat used primarily by anyone for domestic or residential purposes (In this matter, it makes no difference to if the boat is owner-occupied or rented-out)?
  • Are people invited on board the boat in the course of a business, e.g. is it a café or shop?

Even if the answer to all the questions above is 'no', the examiner is advised to make a brief record that he or she has asked the questions and received the negative answers. This information will not be shared with BSS Office or other parties unless there is an investigation linked to gas testing by the examiner.

23 minutes ago, sixbytwelve said:

Are there different levels of BSS inspectors / inspections based on whether the boat is a live aboard or not?

Yes (see above)

 

If him not asking has caused problems I suggest you report him to the BSS - there are to many examples of surveyors faikling to follow the rules, and, unless the BSS managers are informed they will assume their training is OK.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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sixbytwelve Gongoozler

sixbytwelve

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4 minutes ago, Robbo said:

No, for private boats there is only one BSS level

I'm asking because I booked a BSS inspection with a well known Marina in the midlands nearly a month ago. The inspection was booked for Friday just gone. So knowing that the inspection was on a private boat it shouldn't matter whether it's a live aboard or not? I was taking the boat to the marina but due to a breakdown she's not going anywhere. I checked with the Marina if they could come to the boat and they said no problem. I spoke to them on Thursday just to confirm and then they said they couldn't do Friday now even though the boat is less than three miles from the marina. It was re-arranged for Yesterday morning and after waiting in I got a call to say they couldn't make it after all could they do it this morning. After waiting all morning I phoned them and was told he was on his way, then I got a call a few minutes later asking if it was a live aboard and because she is they said they couldn't do it because there are different levels of BSS. Needless to say I'm right hacked off.

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

There is only one 'private BSS' but some examiners are not registered to do 'liveaboards' so, in effect there are two BSS Standards for private boats.

 

It is advised (in the examiners guidelines) to ask if the boat is a liveaboard or not, as many surveyors are not allowed to undertake gas tests unless there is a bubble tested installed.

 

Extract from the examiners notes :

 

Carrying out 'work on the gas system of boats used primarily for residential or domestic purposes fall within scope of a piece of  UK legislation known as the Gas Safety [Installation and Use] Regulations (GSIUR).

As such, the law demands that anyone contracted to 'work' on the LPG system of a boat in scope must be (LPG boats-competent) Gas Safe registered.

As the definition of 'work' covers the removal and replacement of a screw nipple on a gas test point, the scope of the GSIUR includes carrying out BSS LPG tightness test.

Therefore, on a boat in scope of GSIUR, examiners who are not Gas Safe registered can only complete check 7.12.2 (confirming gas tightness) by either:

  • undertaking a gas tightness test using a bubble tester where fitted and correctly located; or,
  • observing the tightness test conducted by a (LPG boats-competent) Gas Safe registered installer

Does a Bubble Tester do away with the need for a Gas Safe registered engineer testing the gas system on residential boats?

Yes, because any BSS Examiner can check for leaks using a fully functioning and appropriately located bubble tester. It is the case however that there is no BSS requirement for a bubble tester and so fitting one is matter of boat owner choice.

Note that all other types of gas work, such as adding or replacing an appliance, needs to be conducted by a Gas Safe registered engineer with the LPG boat competence listed on his/her identity card.

Is it recommended that boat owners fit a bubble tester?

Yes, fitting a bubble tester in the LPG cylinder locker is strongly recommended because it allows owners to check for leaks themselves and so enjoy piece of mind in between BSS Examinations. It is very important that fitting bubble testers on residential boats (and private leisure boats) is done by a LPG boat-competent Gas Safe registered engineer.

This is because the bubble tester must be correctly located and oriented, and for large volume LPG systems, the engineer may need to install a bypass arrangement to allow gas to flow past the bubble tester when it is not being used.

Are there any other alternatives to allow non Gas Safe registered BSS Examiners to check residential boat gas systems?

Unfortunately there are only two methods that can be used to check for gas leaks on boats (manometer leak check and bubble tester check). The only other alternative is for the non-Gas Safe registered BSS Examiner to observe a manometer leak check conducted by a LPG boat-competent Gas Safe registered engineer.

Note on the BSS Examination for non-private boats - If a vessel is a hire boat, third-party managed share-owned boat, trip boat, rented residential boat, floating business or some other form of commercial or public vessel, the boat will be examined to either the 2017 Hire Boat Requirements or 2002 BSS Standards as stipulated by the navigation authority registering your boat

 

The examiners who are not on the Gas Safe register are advised as part of their initial dealings with owners to ask in advance of turning up at the mooring, about the status of the craft.

To avoid falling foul of UK law and avoiding criminal prosecution they need to find out whether the boat's use will mean they should not carry out a tightness-test using a manometer.  They may ask the following questions, just for their own personal record:

  • Is the boat hired out in the course of a business?
  • Is the boat used primarily by anyone for domestic or residential purposes (In this matter, it makes no difference to if the boat is owner-occupied or rented-out)?
  • Are people invited on board the boat in the course of a business, e.g. is it a café or shop?

Even if the answer to all the questions above is 'no', the examiner is advised to make a brief record that he or she has asked the questions and received the negative answers. This information will not be shared with BSS Office or other parties unless there is an investigation linked to gas testing by the examiner.

Thanks Alan, so basically they should have asked when I booked the inspection whether it was a live aboard or not and if so whether it has a bubble tester. Not leave it till the inspection date.

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Alan de Enfield Veteran II

Alan de Enfield

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, sixbytwelve said:

I'm asking because I booked a BSS inspection with a well known Marina in the midlands nearly a month ago. The inspection was booked for Friday just gone. So knowing that the inspection was on a private boat it shouldn't matter whether it's a live aboard or not? I was taking the boat to the marina but due to a breakdown she's not going anywhere. I checked with the Marina if they could come to the boat and they said no problem. I spoke to them on Thursday just to confirm and then they said they couldn't do Friday now even though the boat is less than three miles from the marina. It was re-arranged for Yesterday morning and after waiting in I got a call to say they couldn't make it after all could they do it this morning. After waiting all morning I phoned them and was told he was on his way, then I got a call a few minutes later asking if it was a live aboard and because she is they said they couldn't do it because there are different levels of BSS. Needless to say I'm right hacked off.

Not different levels of BSS, but different levels of qualifications held by the examiners.

Some can do liveaboards and some cannot.

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Robbo Veteran II

Robbo

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Not different levels of BSS, but different levels of qualifications held by the examiners.

Some can do liveaboards and some cannot.

But if you have a bubble tester then they can do liveaboards tho (or don’t have gas at all).

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Alan de Enfield Veteran II

Alan de Enfield

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, sixbytwelve said:

 

Thanks Alan, so basically they should have asked when I booked the inspection whether it was a live aboard or not and if so whether it has a bubble tester. Not leave it till the inspection date.

The whole BSS system can sometimes be a bit of a joke - Scenario, I have my leisure boat BSS tested and it passes with flying colours, I sell it to you, but because you now live aboard the same examiner can no longer test it (exactly the same systems - no modifications), so when it comes to BSS time, If you wish to use the same examiner, you now need to employ an extra person to come and do the gas testing whilst the original examiner (who tested and passed the system last time) watches him do the test.

 

The law is a strange beast.

Just now, Robbo said:

But if you have a bubble tester then they can do liveaboards tho (or don’t have gas at all).

Indeed - agreed.

 

See post #9

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David Mack Veteran II

David MackDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Is there any good reason why the boat owner cannot do a nipple gas test whilst the examiner watches? ( providing the owner considers himself competent )

If the boat owner is not Gas Safe registered, then how does the BSS examiner know if he/she is competent?

 

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Chewbacka Veteran

Chewbacka

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, David Mack said:

If the boat owner is not Gas Safe registered, then how does the BSS examiner know if he/she is competent?

 

I have often wondered why the boat owner cannot connect/disconnect the manometer so the examiner can conduct the leak test.  I realise the competency question, but when all is said and done we all change our own high pressure gas bottles, and to me that is more risky than a manometer check.......

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Alan de Enfield Veteran II

Alan de Enfield

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

I have often wondered why the boat owner cannot connect/disconnect the manometer so the examiner can conduct the leak test.  I realise the competency question, but when all is said and done we all change our own high pressure gas bottles, and to me that is more risky than a manometer check.......

It doesn't really matter what we think (or do) the law is the law, and the law says for residential 'properties' it should be competent folks doing the work.

 

How do you prove you are competent ?

You have a certificate that says so.

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1st ade Rising Star

1st adeDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Yes, fitting a bubble tester in the LPG cylinder locker is strongly recommended because it allows owners to check for leaks themselves and so enjoy piece of mind in between BSS Examinations

Pedant alert: -

You can't have a piece of my mind; I have none to spare.

You may however have peace...

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1st ade Rising Star

1st adeDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Maybe you should inform the BSS team - don't shoot the messenger -  I simply passed on the 'message'

No shooting intended.

(But CWF doesn't permit "2 hours ago Alan de Enfield quoted..." as a header to a quote)

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alan_fincher Veteran II

alan_fincher

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Chewbacka said:

I have often wondered why the boat owner cannot connect/disconnect the manometer so the examiner can conduct the leak test.  I realise the competency question, but when all is said and done we all change our own high pressure gas bottles, and to me that is more risky than a manometer check.......

 

Well one consideration, I guess is that your gas bottles are in a dedicated locker designed specifically so that if you mess up connecting a cylinder gas should not end up inside the boat.

 

If you fail to plug a test point correctly following a manometer test it will.

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Iain_S Influencer

Iain_S

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

I have often wondered why the boat owner cannot connect/disconnect the manometer so the examiner can conduct the leak test.  I realise the competency question, but when all is said and done we all change our own high pressure gas bottles, and to me that is more risky than a manometer check.......

Problem is that you would be doing the work on behalf of the BSS  examiner, who is getting paid, so competency = certificate.

 

Easier to pitch a tent on the towpath so that the boat isn't a liveaboard on the day of the test ...

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