CRT Council Boaters Reps Meeting

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

 

 

Width restricter posts embedded in the canal bed on the North Oxford at Braunston? ?

May I refer my learned friend to post #22

 

At what dimension does it become a widebeam boat ?

What criteria denote a 'wide canal' (bearing in mind that the dredged 'navigable channel' will need to be wide enough for two widebeams to pass)

Edited June 30, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[john6767]

We all cite the North Oxford from Braunston as suffering this issue, where else is it happening?

[matty40s]

10 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

 

 

Width restricter posts embedded in the canal bed on the North Oxford at Braunston? ?

Too late, Dunchurch Pools marina is investing far too much money ( as has North Kilworth) on facilities and moorings for wide beams . The horse has already bolted on this one.

As is usual with CRT and BW before them, they watch things happening (like the London moorings explosion) and finally decide to have a meeting on how to deal with it.

[Ray T]

There are reputed to be least 10 wide boats in Dunchurch Pools Marina and some in Barby, Both are Marinas on the North Oxford.

It would be interesting to watch when two of these meet from opposite directions.

Edited June 30, 2018 by Ray T

[cuthound]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

May I refer my learned friend to post #22

 

At what dimension does it become a widebeam boat ?

What criteria denote a 'wide canal' (bearing in mind that the dredged 'navigable channel' will need to be wide enough for two widebeams to pass)

 

Yes I saw post #22 after I had posted. Teach me to read to the end of the thread.

 

Narrow canals were originally dredegd to allow a channel wide enough for 2 narrowboats to pass, so posts say 7 foot 6 inches apart would work as an effective width restrictor.

[Ray T]

Just now, john6767 said:

We all cite the North Oxford from Braunston as suffering this issue, where else is it happening?

There is a wide boat moors at Alvecote Marina on the Coventry Canal but it doesn't have an engine so I suppose that won't count. 

[cuthound]

2 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Too late, Dunchurch Pools marina is investing far too much money ( as has North Kilworth) on facilities and moorings for wide beams . The horse has already bolted on this one.

As is usual with CRT and BW before them, they watch things happening (like the London moorings explosion) and finally decide to have a meeting on how to deal with it.

Why is it too late providing adequate notice is given, thus allowing widebeam owners the opportunity to relocate.

1 minute ago, Ray T said:

There is a wide boat moors at Alvecote Marina on the Coventry Canal but it doesn't have an engine so I suppose that won't count. 

It recently escaped from the marina for a couple of weeks, not sure how, perhaps it was ooled out.

 

However even if it had an engine it couldn't get far because of the narrow bridgeholes. ?

[matty40s]

5 hours ago, cuthound said:

Why is it too late providing adequate notice is given, thus allowing widebeam owners the opportunity to relocate.

It recently escaped from the marina for a couple of weeks, not sure how, perhaps it was ooled out.

 

However even if it had an engine it couldn't get far because of the narrow bridgeholes. ?

You have to factor in how much Network Access Agreement fees were put into place originally when the marina contracts  were signed.

Whether someone stipulated widebeam

access was probably never discussed, if it was, it probably wasn't  questioned. 

 CrT Moorings agreements folks don't talk to planning, enforcement or legal, they are all in different offices.

Hence the complete mess.

[StarUKKiwi]

10 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Back to the question - how will it be enforced / monitored ?

Good question, they might appreciate some ideas on that. I know they mentioned enforcement in the past, but I think that is what will become clearer. 

[StarUKKiwi]

9 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I am wondering about the criteria they will be using - it is of course possible that a canal with 'wide' locks' may not in itself be suitable for widebeam boats.

 

The criteria could be any permutation :

 

Must a 'wide beam' canal allow :

2x 12 foot beam boats must be able to pass,

1x 12 foot and 1x 10 foot, 1x 12 foot and 1x 7foot …………………….

 

Will the definition of a 'narrow canal' be based on the legal definition of a NB (ie “narrow canal boat” means a vessel having a beam of less than seven feet six inches" )

In which case will it be defined as 2x NB must be able to pass, 1x NB and 1x 9 foot  or   ………………….

 

A minefield.

I know the National.Advisory Group (NAG) has been advising on this, profile etc. 

[StarUKKiwi]

11 hours ago, zenataomm said:

Thanks for your detailed report, especially under the circumstances of your health.

 

I imagine you must get quite frustrated listening to weasel'ly words that in one breath say that they are striding on with the backlog of vegetation cutback to the point that some of that budget has been allocated to the dredging team so they can do some while they're busy at their core duties.  Only to then hear that the dredging schedule may be severely cut back.

 

If those two contradictory comments came from the same person then everybody's intelligence is being insulted.  

If they came from two different people then it's concrete proof of internal communication being nonsense.

Whichever applies, The Chairperson of that meeting should have picked up on it before its release or at the very latest at the time of discussion and placed an action for the situation to be clarified.

 

Bunch of muppets!

It isn't a chaired meeting as such, i didn't really make this bit clear. They look at both dredging and vegetation schedules and if they coincide, they allocate vegetation clearance to be done in conjunction with dredging. Thus only one boat and crew are used and it saves navigations being out of use twice - the dredging schedules MAY be cutback owing to all the breaches and capital.cost of repairs. 

Hope this clears any confusion

[Mike Todd]

On 30/06/2018 at 16:53, Ray T said:

There are reputed to be least 10 wide boats in Dunchurch Pools Marina and some in Barby, Both are Marinas on the North Oxford.

It would be interesting to watch when two of these meet from opposite directions.

It will be interesting to here often they actually leave the marina - or expect to.

 

Last winter we moored at Droitwich, a couple of pontoons away from a wide beam . . . 

[alan_fincher]

14 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Last winter we moored at Droitwich, a couple of pontoons away from a wide beam . . . 

Isn't the Droitwich Barge Canal a wide canal?

[john6767]

1 minute ago, alan_fincher said:

Isn't the Droitwich Barge Canal a wide canal?

It is, but I thought there was a width restriction (under the railway?) and that a widebeam could not actually get from the Severn to the basin in Droitwich 

[Mike Todd]

2 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Isn't the Droitwich Barge Canal a wide canal?

Not where the marina is! (ceases to be wide beam just outside the own itself, despite the name continuing into the lock at the end of the park. That's what happens when canals are closed.

 

(ellipsis was by way of an ancient alternative to an emoji)

[alan_fincher]

2 minutes ago, john6767 said:

It is, but I thought there was a width restriction (under the railway?) and that a widebeam could not actually get from the Severn to the basin in Droitwich 

You may be right - many yeras sinc I have been there.

1 minute ago, Mike Todd said:

Not where the marina is! (ceases to be wide beam just outside the own itself, despite the name continuing into the lock at the end of the park. That's what happens when canals are closed.

 

(ellipsis was by way of an ancient alternative to an emoji)

To be fair you did not mention the marina - I assumed you meant the basin with the visitor moorings.

[matty40s]

2 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

It will be interesting to here often they actually leave the marina - or expect to.

 

Last winter we moored at Droitwich, a couple of pontoons away from a wide beam . . . 

I'm not sure the marina entrance is wide enough for it to leave either. It was launched there last March.

[john6767]

2 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

Not where the marina is! (ceases to be wide beam just outside the own itself, despite the name continuing into the lock at the end of the park. That's what happens when canals are closed.

 

(ellipsis was by way of an ancient alternative to an emoji)

So if you mean in the marina not the basin, then the marina is on the junction canal which is norrow and has locks close to each side of the entrance, so even if it could get through the entrance it’s not going anywhere.  So it is a bit different case to the North Oxford.  I don’t see anything wrong with any marina having widebeams in them that can not get out, if people want to pay for that and the marina has the planning permission it seems fine.

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, john6767 said:

So if you mean in the marina not the basin, then the marina is on the junction canal which is norrow and has locks close to each side of the entrance, so even if it could get through the entrance it’s not going anywhere.  So it is a bit different case to the North Oxford.  I don’t see anything wrong with any marina having widebeams in them that can not get out, if people want to pay for that and the marina has the planning permission it seems fine.

I wasn't aware that there is a different planning permission required for a widebeam.

 

We are 14 foot beam, does that mean that the marina needs two-planning permissions for us, or, just a half-planning permission for a NB ?

[john6767]

14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I wasn't aware that there is a different planning permission required for a widebeam.

 

We are 14 foot beam, does that mean that the marina needs two-planning permissions for us, or, just a half-planning permission for a NB ?

OK I was making an assumption that if someone wanted a widebeam in a marina that could not get out of the marina, then they would be living on it, or else why bother?

[furnessvale]

On 30/06/2018 at 16:54, Ray T said:

There is a wide boat moors at Alvecote Marina on the Coventry Canal but it doesn't have an engine so I suppose that won't count. 

There is also a wide beam moored linearly at Longport boatyard (Stoke), unless it has moved (by crane) recently.

 

George

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, john6767 said:

It is, but I thought there was a width restriction (under the railway?) and that a widebeam could not actually get from the Severn to the basin in Droitwich 

The Armco tunnel under the railway is restricted to about 10 ft beam. The invert is curved so the actual width is dependent on the underwater shape of the boat.

[BruceinSanity]

8 hours ago, furnessvale said:

There is also a wide beam moored linearly at Longport boatyard (Stoke), unless it has moved (by crane) recently.

 

George

It was still there last week.

[Steilsteven]

Here I am mrsmelly but I'm not biting.

I am having a chuckle though.

 

Keith

[mrsmelly]

11 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

Here I am mrsmelly but I'm not biting.

I am having a chuckle though.

 

Keith

Good  afternoon. I  love fat boats much more comfy than sewer tubes however its horses for courses so to speak. I am at present on the K and A  recently on the GU, two tiny canals ideal for  pairs of narrowboats or indeed single narrowboats. Dutch barges etc are fab on the correct waterway which of course is Holland or whatever you wish to call it. In the UK we have fab locations also built for boats of such size. The river Trent and the A and C spring to mind but not tiny spots as I previously mentioned. When I lived on the Trent I simply bought a widebeam but when  I came south again I bought a suited narrowbeam. A smashin couple I know lived on a huge barge called Howling gale on the Trent ( Its now on the Thames ) but they have gone boating again so bought a narrowboat to come down south for a while. Having something wide on something narrow and shallow like for instance the K and A is like taking a moped on the motorway its not suitable. However its against the law to take a moped on the motorway but we have to rely too heavily on common sense alone on the inland waterways. Having seen two fat boats approaching a bridge hole last week on the K  and A I  too  was giggling.