Diesel costs

[Dunworkin]

As a to be newbie on the network, can someone give me a rough steer as to diesel costs? I think ours will be a 160 litre tank, and I was wondering at current prices (and the good old 60 / 40 split), what I should expect to pay to fill the tank?

 

many thanks 

[Guest]

For domestic expect anything between 70-80 p ltr

[Dunworkin]

So how would that translate into a tank fill up?

[cuthound]

5 minutes ago, Dunworkin said:

So how would that translate into a tank fill up?

 

160 x 0.6 = 96

 

160 x .4 = 64

 

 So 64 litres at £0.80 = £51.20

 

96 litres at £0.8 + £0.58 = £132.48

 

So £183.68 in total.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by cuthound
Tryping

[OldGoat]

3 minutes ago, Dunworkin said:

So how would that translate into a tank fill up?

That depends on what percentage you sign up for - £112 for all domestic (which quite a lot of folks do)

to...

[Chewbacka]

So about 75p per litre for domestic and 135p for propulsion.   I will leave you to work out the rest

[Dunworkin]

If I bank on around £130 for a fill up.....assuming I declare a 60 / 40 split which seems to be the norm, then I shouldn’t be far wide if the Mark?

[OldGoat]

8 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

So about 75p per litre for domestic and 135p for propulsion.   I will leave you to work out the rest

It's really a matter of what YOU think is reasonable as there are no hard and fast rules.

I go on the basis that if 60/40 was deemed by the RYA as reasonable for a fuel guzzling sea going cruiser, then 80/20 would be a generous declaration on your part as most of the fuel is spent on heating the engine and hot water and charging your huge battery bank.  

 As we're leaving the EU this charge should disappear *. Prior to some miserable Belgian MP boating diesel was charged at the domestic rate anyway 

 

* In your dreams Boo Boo

Edited June 24, 2018 by OldGoat

[Chewbacka]

7 minutes ago, Dunworkin said:

If I bank on around £130 for a fill up.....assuming I declare a 60 / 40 split which seems to be the norm, then I shouldn’t be far wide if the Mark?

In this weather don't fill the tank to the top you need about 10% empty as the diesel is cold and when the sun beats down onto you boat and heats the tank the fuel will expand and you don't want it overflowing into the canal.

[Timx]

I try not to go to places that demand 60/40, lots of places will allow self declaration of 90 pc domestic, and also a bit less at 100pc domestic.

i have to charge my batteries, moving or not, so 60/40 is unjust in my opinion.

[Timx]

I thought it always better to keep your tank fullish to stop condensation in the tank, so I normally don't go too low b4 filling up.However I have now been told you need to go low, as diesel degenerates.

i have not changed my ways because I don't wanna get caught short, but this may cause me harm in the future according to new information(to me )

[Robbo]

5 minutes ago, Timx said:

I thought it always better to keep your tank fullish to stop condensation in the tank, so I normally don't go too low b4 filling up.However I have now been told you need to go low, as diesel degenerates.

i have not changed my ways because I don't wanna get caught short, but this may cause me harm in the future according to new information(to me )

It’s best not to have diesel older than 6 months.  FAME free diesel is better and will last longer.

[Dunworkin]

Still not 100% clear here... £180 sounds steep for a fill up? C'est la vie

[Timx]

5 minutes ago, Robbo said:

It’s best not to have diesel older than 6 months.  FAME free diesel is better and will last longer.

Yeah, I have been ccing two years so would now be worried about going too low as all that bad diesel might knacker me, I think my tank is 120 to 150 litres, and I rarely go below 70 in that time. Suck it out and start again seems the only other way.is that what would be advised ?

[Robbo]

17 minutes ago, Timx said:

Yeah, I have been ccing two years so would now be worried about going too low as all that bad diesel might knacker me, I think my tank is 120 to 150 litres, and I rarely go below 70 in that time. Suck it out and start again seems the only other way.is that what would be advised ?

I would just keep going as you are as the diesel will mix.   It wise to suck or drain the bottom of the tank every now and again to see if you have any water in the tank.  Also you can suck some diesel out of the tank, put in a glass, leave and check if it’s clear.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Robbo

[Chewbacka]

14 minutes ago, Dunworkin said:

Still not 100% clear here... £180 sounds steep for a fill up? C'est la vie

It's very clear, the cost depends on the domestic price the supplier is going to charge you, propulsion diesel has an additional tax of about 60p, the split that you choose to declare will then fix how many of your total litres are at domestic price and how many at propulsion price.

[Tony Brooks]

29 minutes ago, Dunworkin said:

Still not 100% clear here... £180 sounds steep for a fill up? C'est la vie

OK, so yesterday I filled with 100 litres @ 60/40 split and paid £114.

 

I was a Burk, first fill up since autumn so should have declared more like 20/80 but there you go.

[Dunworkin]

Bingo.... Thanks ??

Just as an added complication... Heating and water will come from a diesel stove with a separate tank.... If I'm just filling the main fuel tank then presume 60 /40 or 80 /20 can still be applied for battery charging etc? 

[cuthound]

Fill the dedicated stove tank as the 100% domestic rate.

 

If you so have a diesel heater (Webasto etc) which can heat radiators and water, which is fed from the engine tank, then also take this into consideration when filling your tank ahead of winter.

 

Boats with gas central and hot water heating can legitimately claim 60/40.

[Dunworkin]

Really helpful. If I can still justify the 60/40 split on the main tank (battery charging /lighting etc)... Then that's a big help. 

[OldGoat]

58 minutes ago, Dunworkin said:

Bingo.... Thanks ??

Just as an added complication... Heating and water will come from a diesel stove with a separate tank.... If I'm just filling the main fuel tank then presume 60 /40 or 80 /20 can still be applied for battery charging etc? 

Methinks you are making a meal out of the whole issue. Price split is one of the few (if any) areas of taxation where the rate is on a 'trust the user' basis. Some  points to cloud the issue further are:-

• The base price has already had a tax of 5% applied to it
• Most of the fuel is expended in the form of heat.
• Very little is actually expended an actually propelling the boat
• 60/40 was a split agreed after consultation with users and the IWA as being reasonable across all classes of boaters, with the proviso that any user could declare otherwise, with the ryder that  in  The Awful Day of Judgement (!) HMRC could ask you to justify your split. That's just not going to happen unless you use thousands and thousands of litres of fuel (I have seen posts on other non boaty forums, that have indicated that where motorists have been caught with Red in their tanks, rather than prosecute them the inspectors have just given the option of  paying for a full tank of fuel at the road duty price for a first offence. That's something with a clear calculation of the loss to the Revenue). 

I had a quick look over the shoulder at a retailer recently and 90+ percent of customers were claiming 100% domestic rate. I claim 80/20 on the basis I outlined previously

 

? If still bothered try 70/30, that's mid way between the suggested 60/40 and 80/20 wich is probably nearer correct for narrowboats.

REMEMBER it's your declaration of percentage and not what the retailer thinks  

In short dinna fash, laddie; dinna fash yersel'

 

Ps: you won't get many thanks if you tell the retailer "xx litres at 100% and yy at 60/40", jut do the whole lot at whatever you think the composite rate is.

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by OldGoat

[Dunworkin]

Fair point skipper... ??

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

So about 75p per litre for domestic and 135p for propulsion.   I will leave you to work out the rest

I dont think you will find many places that cheap now. I was quoted much nearer a pound on the L&L 80p at Burscough, and 90p at Bingley, cheapest was Reedley where I paid 73p but I expect that will have gone up by now. I also paid 80p on the Bridgewater at Thorne Marine

[Alan de Enfield]

5 hours ago, Dunworkin said:

Still not 100% clear here... £180 sounds steep for a fill up? C'est la vie

Try filling up my tanks (2800 litres)

(But, I do get over 2000 miles out of a 'fill')

[Wanderer Vagabond]

6 hours ago, Dunworkin said:

As a to be newbie on the network, can someone give me a rough steer as to diesel costs? I think ours will be a 160 litre tank, and I was wondering at current prices (and the good old 60 / 40 split), what I should expect to pay to fill the tank?

 

many thanks 

We have a tank much the same size as yours, around about 160 litres. I've checked back over the period that I've been CC'ing and the most I've ever put in has been 131 litres. I use a dipstick and when I get down to under 60 litres in the tank I start looking for where the best priced diesel is on this site (http://diesel.fibrefactory.co.uk/  ). 100 litres lasts me about a month so I'm effectively filling up once a month. Although the tank holds 160 litres, do you really want to get down to fumes before you refill? You need an air gap at the top of the tank for expansion in the hot weather and if you get right down to the dregs before refilling, you are likely to draw up any crap in the bottom of the tank into the filter.

 

You will also invariably find that if you are desperate for diesel, no-one around is selling it for less than 80p a litre domestic/130 propulsion (sod's law I believe it is called ) although with a 80/20 split, 100 litres will cost you £90. The last fill up I had was at Hawne Basin which I think was selling at 66p Domestic/£1.13 propulsion so an 80/20 split on 100 litres would cost £75.40