River Nene electrified (Guillotine) locks

[OldGoat]

Help!

1. Which of the Nene guillotine locks have electric powered bottom gates, please.

2. What size of spindle would fit the hole in the wheel (another thread suggested a cutdown Philips screwdriver - but which size)

Getting fed up with visiting Brum every year, I thought It would be nice to revisit the Nene after many years.

However, The Management refuses 'cos the mechanical winding gear is a pain to operate. I've spent this afternoon googling through possible help but zilch substantial info.

Last time we visited there were 6 manual locks and two have / had been converted - but someone *** had nicked the solar panels.

 

Thanks.

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, OldGoat said:

Help!

1. Which of the Nene guillotine locks have electric powered bottom gates, please.

2. What size of spindle would fit the hole in the wheel (another thread suggested a cutdown Philips screwdriver - but which size)

Getting fed up with visiting Brum every year, I thought It would be nice to revisit the Nene after many years.

However, The Management refuses 'cos the mechanical winding gear is a pain to operate. I've spent this afternoon googling through possible help but zilch substantial info.

Last time we visited there were 6 manual locks and two have / had been converted - but someone *** had nicked the solar panels.

 

Thanks.

I think I counted six manual still when we passed down last month.

 

I'm not sure I'd want to try fixing a handle in the hole as I have seen described on several occasions. My understanding is that the large wheel was introduced for good safety reasons! Nothing short of electricity makes them any easier . . . just watch the one that starts to rise when you walk to the other end.

[GUMPY]

You need to get off the boat as I do and wind the wheels. Cant expect wife to do that. I have to say they are not difficult for a bloke, there is however a technique which is easy to master. For a couple of pints at the Cock in Denford I will, if I'm about, come and demonstrate at my local locks which are the first manual ones you get to.

1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

just watch the one that starts to rise when you walk to the other end.

None of them do if you lock them as you are supposed to

[OldGoat]

11 minutes ago, Loddon said:

You need to get off the boat as I do and wind the wheels. Cant expect wife to do that. I have to say they are not difficult for a bloke, there is however a technique which is easy to master. For a couple of pints at the Cock in Denford I will, if I'm about, come and demonstrate at my local locks which are the first manual ones you get to.

None of them do if you lock them as you are supposed to

 

1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

I think I counted six manual still when we passed down last month.

 

I'm not sure I'd want to try fixing a handle in the hole as I have seen described on several occasions. My understanding is that the large wheel was introduced for good safety reasons! Nothing short of electricity makes them any easier . . . just watch the one that starts to rise when you walk to the other end.

Another boater on here said that's what he did - it's very tiring gripping the rim and standing in front.

There were six unpowered locks when we passed by in 20??
 

!Bother!

12 minutes ago, Loddon said:

You need to get off the boat as I do and wind the wheels. Cant expect wife to do that. I have to say they are not difficult for a bloke, there is however a technique which is easy to master. For a couple of pints at the Cock in Denford I will, if I'm about, come and demonstrate at my local locks which are the first manual ones you get to.

None of them do if you lock them as you are supposed to

We bot share lock works. The Management doesn't like driving the boat in and is happy to work narrow locks on her own. On the Nene we work one at either 'end of the wheel, but it's still tedious.

My info was that there were handles  - but removed for H&S reasons (despite being satisfactory for many years.

[ditchcrawler]

I followed an old boy and another boat,he had made a handle to fit the wheels. I think it took him longer to fix and remove the handles than it did me to work a lock after he had gone

[PaulJ]

4 hours ago, OldGoat said:

Help!

1. Which of the Nene guillotine locks have electric powered bottom gates, please.

2. What size of spindle would fit the hole in the wheel (another thread suggested a cutdown Philips screwdriver - but which size)

 

6mm diameter- and it does make it alot easier

[Scholar Gypsy]

I must admit I can't see what the problem really is.

Once you get the wheel moving it has a good bit of momentum, and an occasional shove will keep it moving. A lot less effort than many bottom gates on the GU, for example.

[sirweste]

I agree, once you've got it spinning you just have to keep the wheel turning. Bit tedious, but there's only a handful of manual ones

[OldGoat]

11 hours ago, PaulJ said:

6mm diameter- and it does make it alot easier

Excellent - many thanks!

I'll now go and have a look in by dunnage box for a donor

39 minutes ago, sirweste said:

I agree, once you've got it spinning you just have to keep the wheel turning. Bit tedious, but there's only a handful of manual ones

There are still six by my reckoning

10 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

I must admit I can't see what the problem really is.

Once you get the wheel moving it has a good bit of momentum, and an occasional shove will keep it moving. A lot less effort than many bottom gates on the GU, for example.

That's (one of) the reason why we don't go near the GU any more... 

[Mike Todd]

2 hours ago, sirweste said:

I agree, once you've got it spinning you just have to keep the wheel turning. Bit tedious, but there's only a handful of manual ones

That was not our experience - there was very little excess momentum and the wheel would stop almost as soon as we stopped spinning it. But, hey, that's all part of why inland waterways are so fascinating! If you don't like doing some work, just cruise up and down the Thames all day long!

[john6767]

I found the trick of insetting a Phillips screwdriver into the hole on the manual guillotine lock to be a big help, they are very hard work without, and not easy with.  Lucky there is not too many of them.

2 hours ago, sirweste said:

I agree, once you've got it spinning you just have to keep the wheel turning. Bit tedious, but there's only a handful of manual ones

Two years ago I did not find the you could get then spinning at all, at least when going up.  Have they improved?

[OldGoat]

2 hours ago, john6767 said:

I found the trick of insetting a Phillips screwdriver into the hole on the manual guillotine lock to be a big help, they are very hard work without, and not easy with.  Lucky there is not too many of them.

Two years ago I did not find the you could get then spinning at all, at least when going up.  Have they improved?

I managed to contact someone who knows at EA this morning and he said -

There were no holes where you could stick a screwdriver and anyway he couldn't see the benefit as the gear ratio had been changed to make spinning them easier - all silky smooth, he said...

There was difficulty in working out which locks were still manual, but with a bit of digging around, 'we' agreed that there only six left with the possibility of one of them being 'electrified' later this year.

We'll give it a whirl and go cruising in late July - unless it snows...

[john6767]

3 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

I managed to contact someone who knows at EA this morning and he said -

There were no holes where you could stick a screwdriver and anyway he couldn't see the benefit as the gear ratio had been changed to make spinning them easier - all silky smooth, he said...

There was difficulty in working out which locks were still manual, but with a bit of digging around, 'we' agreed that there only six left with the possibility of one of them being 'electrified' later this year.

We'll give it a whirl and go cruising in late July - unless it snows...

They must have changed the wheels since we were there summer 2016, there was a hole were the handle used to be.  Hopefully there are easier now.

[Scholar Gypsy]

28 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

I managed to contact someone who knows at EA this morning and he said -

There were no holes where you could stick a screwdriver and anyway he couldn't see the benefit as the gear ratio had been changed to make spinning them easier - all silky smooth, he said...

There was difficulty in working out which locks were still manual, but with a bit of digging around, 'we' agreed that there only six left with the possibility of one of them being 'electrified' later this year.

We'll give it a whirl and go cruising in late July - unless it snows...

I've annotated the six in my copy of Imrays - will check it in a few hours and reply. I think Upper Ringstead, Denford, Ashton, Perio, Elton, Warmington, but I am not sure! 

[Mike Todd]

24 minutes ago, john6767 said:

They must have changed the wheels since we were there summer 2016, there was a hole were the handle used to be.  Hopefully there are easier now.

At least a month ago when we came down the holes were still there where I bothered to check. However, they are well in from the outer edge and so the mechanical advantage is significantly reduced. The man at EA must be all muscles if he imagines them to be silky smooth. On the other hand, there is none of the grating feeling often felt with badly greased ratchet paddles, for example, so - yes - they turn 'smoothly', but requiring quite a bit of sustained force to keep them moving. That said, we managed and only felt that we had had a good workout rather than distressed - but we knew what to expect, save for a misplaced hope that some might by now have also been electrified. I suspect the remote location of some makes the task quite expensive but, IIRC, one is next to an Archimedean screw under construction so perhaps they will be able to syphon off just a few electrons to aid aged, weak and feeble boaters (like us!) 'Tis all part of the experience, in my view.

[Mike Todd]

17 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

I've annotated the six in my copy of Imrays - will check it in a few hours and reply. I think Upper Ringstead, Denford, Ashton, Perio, Elton, Warmington, but I am not sure! 

According to my photos, Upper Ringstead, Denford and Warmington are definitely manual wheel operated but that Elton is electrified. I cannot be sure about Perio and Ashton so I will check other sources. There is a lot to look through to find the missing one!

[Mike Todd]

5 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

According to my photos, Upper Ringstead, Denford and Warmington are definitely manual wheel operated but that Elton is electrified. I cannot be sure about Perio and Ashton so I will check other sources. There is a lot to look through to find the missing one!

Ashton and Perio have wheels

[Mike Todd]

Found the other one: Woodford. We noted that one in our blog because Christine had help from an EA staff member cutting grass!

[OldGoat]

25 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

I've annotated the six in my copy of Imrays - will check it in a few hours and reply. I think Upper Ringstead, Denford, Ashton, Perio, Elton, Warmington, but I am not sure! 

On my list as well - except for Elton

23 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

At least a month ago when we came down the holes were still there where I bothered to check. However, they are well in from the outer edge and so the mechanical advantage is significantly reduced. The man at EA must be all muscles if he imagines them to be silky smooth. On the other hand, there is none of the grating feeling often felt with badly greased ratchet paddles, for example, so - yes - they turn 'smoothly', but requiring quite a bit of sustained force to keep them moving. That said, we managed and only felt that we had had a good workout rather than distressed - but we knew what to expect, save for a misplaced hope that some might by now have also been electrified. I suspect the remote location of some makes the task quite expensive but, IIRC, one is next to an Archimedean screw under construction so perhaps they will be able to syphon off just a few electrons to aid aged, weak and feeble boaters (like us!) 'Tis all part of the experience, in my view.

Some times (!) people in authority have to be somewhat PC to I took the EA's feedback with a pinch of salt. I will definitely emasculate a tatty old screwdriver anyway!

 

6 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

According to my photos, Upper Ringstead, Denford and Warmington are definitely manual wheel operated but that Elton is electrified. I cannot be sure about Perio and Ashton so I will check other sources. There is a lot to look through to find the missing one!

  The list now appears to be:-

18 Upper Ringstead

20 Woodford

21 Denford

28 Ashton

30 Perio

31 Warmington

 

I have 11 Earl's Barton which appeared as a manual in CanalPlan's photo and which was not commented upon in my Imray. I found an IWA listing that has it as electric - so probably correct.

 

Thank you all for your responses to date. The Nene has got quite a following after all.

[artleknock]

Last Sept when we went through we had done five of them when an elderly lady, from a boat that was coming down, produced what looked like a 'G' clamp with a wooden handle fitted to it. Clamped it to the outside of the wheel and wound the gate up and down with no effort at all.

None of the ones we tried 'spun up', though it was esier to drop the shutter than it was to lift it.

[cuthound]

7 hours ago, sirweste said:

Bit tedious, but there's only a handful of manual ones

 

6 hours ago, OldGoat said:

There are still six by my reckoning

 

Perhaps sirweste originates from the Fens? ?

[GUMPY]

As I said the first three are 3 of my 4 local locks, none of them are hard for me even at 66 hence the offer of help if I'm about.

The thing I like about them is there is no timeout when raising them so going downstream can test the skippers awareness?

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, OldGoat said:

On my list as well - except for Elton

Some times (!) people in authority have to be somewhat PC to I took the EA's feedback with a pinch of salt. I will definitely emasculate a tatty old screwdriver anyway!

 

  The list now appears to be:-

18 Upper Ringstead

20 Woodford

21 Denford

28 Ashton

30 Perio

31 Warmington

 

I have 11 Earl's Barton which appeared as a manual in CanalPlan's photo and which was not commented upon in my Imray. I found an IWA listing that has it as electric - so probably correct.

 

Thank you all for your responses to date. The Nene has got quite a following after all.

My pix clearly show that Earls Barton is electrified

[sirweste]

44 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

 

Perhaps sirweste originates from the Fens? ?

6 is a handful for me...

[john6767]

6 minutes ago, sirweste said:

6 is a handful for me...

They are definitely a handful....