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Which MPPT 10A solar controller?


MtB

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I bought a complete 100W solar kit from Bimble last year for one of my boats and it really doesn't work that well. It came with a cheap and nasty PWM controller (I didn't spot this when ordering, duh!) and I'm blaming the controller.

 

There was a thread here where a very low cost MPPT controller was discussed recently and after a load of quibbling about whether a controller so cheap could possibly be MPPT (not PWM), the team decided it really was MPPT and a jolly good piece of kit. But I can't find the thread!

 

Does anyone remember which controller this was? Or which thread it was please?

 

Or does the team think I should stop being a cheapskate and just buy somewthing expensive? And if so, what is the best?

 

Many thanks...

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Or does the team think I should stop being a cheapskate and just buy somewthing expensive? And if so, what is the best?

 

Yes, as you get what you pay for and you in particular (from your previous posts) need to eek everything you can from your array.  Tracer get good reviews, but I'd suggest you also consider spending 70 odd quid on a Victron Blue Solar 75/15 (75volt/15amp).  I just believe they have a sounder grasp than most on the battery charging side of things, and particularly their bulk/absorption /float algorithms, which is equally as important as harvesting energy from the panels. This'll unit be fine for your current single 100 watt panel (19v max probably?) and will quite happily handle another in series (thus 38V) if/when you decide you need more and add another similar panel, but their higher voltage capacity ones do get a fair bit more expensive. If the maximum harvested current might potentially be above 15a, it can handle about 20a (according to some of their tech specs which I found somewhere a while back but can't put my fingers on) and still deliver a 15a max charging current. Anyway, worth a look. :)

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An advantage of the tracer over the Victron is that it will allow up to 150v, if that should ever be needed. 

I have no experience of the Victron but do know they have their advocates one advantage appears to be that compatible models allow the use of VictronConnect software (mac OS compatible, amongst others) 

Unfortunately the 75/15 isn't compatible but the 70/10 is

Pdf of compatible controllers here

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/victronconnect:start#compatible_victron_products

Edited by reg
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2 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

it can handle about 20a (according to some of their tech specs which I found somewhere a while back but can't put my fingers on) and still deliver a 15a max charging current.

This sentence doesn’t make sense. If it can output a max of 15A then that’s what it does. As long as the input voltage isn’t exceeded you can put 1kW of panels on it and it’ll still deliver 15A maximum. 

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4 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

I have two Victron 75/15s.  No problems except I struggled to get one of them configured for 12v batteries (had to buy a dongle at extra cost to programme it from the computer).

It's supposed to sense 12V or 24V automatically when you connect it battery end first.  If it didn't, you could have sent it back as a duffer rather than bear unnecessary expense. 

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9 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

 

Y, but I'd suggest you also consider spending 70 odd quid on a Victron Blue Solar 75/15 (75volt/15amp).  I just believe they have a sounder grasp than most on the battery charging side of things, and particularly their bulk/absorption /float algorithms, which is equally as important as harvesting energy from the panels.

I got one of these earlier this year and it has been faultless. Good buy. Plus the added benefit is mine has Bluetooth. Well I say a benefit, 'cause it maybe to someone but my bleeding phone only connects to the BMV 713 and refuses to connect to both so I don't bother. I wish victron would network their stuff better! 

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11 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

It's supposed to sense 12V or 24V automatically when you connect it battery end first.  If it didn't, you could have sent it back as a duffer rather than bear unnecessary expense. 

'supposed' is not a very definitive word in these circumstances ........  the instructions clearly state that, if it doesn't automatically sense the battery voltage, it should be forced by programming via a PC using the dongle.

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11 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Plus the added benefit is mine has Bluetooth. Well I say a benefit, 'cause it maybe to someone but my bleeding phone only connects to the BMV 713 and refuses to connect to both so I don't bother. I wish victron would network their stuff better! 

Dr Bob, I don't know if you have ever been able to connect to the Victron but to do this with my one you need to have location turned on when using a phone with some versions of Android. Mine is 6.01 and I have to do this.  The bluetooth is very handy and an easy way to see the battery voltage.

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56 minutes ago, philjw said:

Dr Bob, I don't know if you have ever been able to connect to the Victron but to do this with my one you need to have location turned on when using a phone with some versions of Android. Mine is 6.01 and I have to do this.  The bluetooth is very handy and an easy way to see the battery voltage.

I think the problem is that Dr. Bobs phone will only connect to one bluetooth gizmo at a time, (it could be true for all phones??).... thus, once it has connected to the BMV, which it seems to prefer :) , it cannot connect to the MPPT.

 

The solution might be to unpair it from the BMV, or even forget the BMV, then pair and connect to the MPPT, and accept that you can only be connected to one or other of the gizmos.

 

One would have thought that Victron would foresee this as an issue, and make all Victron bluetooth devices accessible, once one has been connected to - a bluetooth network like Bob suggests.

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3 minutes ago, Robbo said:

My phone can connect to multiple Bluetooth items at once and I expect most smart phones can.

As well as the MPPT I have a bluetooth link to the radio on my boat. I'll see if I can connect to both at once when next there.

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11 minutes ago, Robbo said:

My phone can connect to multiple Bluetooth items at once and I expect most smart phones can.

Yes... I've just connected to both my boat stereo system, and a Bose speaker, and can switch between the two, although if I start one, the other pauses. Perhaps Victron is the weakest link and dont allow a phone to connect to two of its' gizmos at the same time. I've even found a screen which shows both connections, and allows options to play via either, or the phone speaker.

 

As I said, the solution "might be", to unpair, or forget, the BMV, and pair and connect to the MPPT. At least this would confirm that he can connect to both individually. He/we could then work on finding a way to connect to both simultaneously, and switch simply between the two.

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So if I buy the Victron and it won't correctly detect my battery voltage, I have to buy a dongle thing which may or may not work?

 

I'm far from convinced this Victron is a controller I want to get involved with.

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3 hours ago, Murflynn said:

'supposed' is not a very definitive word in these circumstances ........  the instructions clearly state that, if it doesn't automatically sense the battery voltage, it should be forced by programming via a PC using the dongle.

 

Oh bum, that might make things less straightforward. I'd still have thought they'd swap it but I suppose once you've got the dongle it matters not and itmight come in handy - or you might be able to flog it to me!

 

14 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

So if I buy the Victron and it won't correctly detect my battery voltage, I have to buy a dongle thing which may or may not work?

 

I'm far from convinced this Victron is a controller I want to get involved with.

I know someone who might lend you one... :D. Seriously,  I've found their customer and technical support to be excellent. 

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59 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

I've just connected to both my boat stereo system, and a Bose speaker, and can switch between the two, although if I start one, the other pauses.

The audio spec over Bluetooth only permits a single stream. So yes, you can pair multiple audio devices but only connect to one at a time. For other devices the Bluetooth spec states up to 7 simultaneous connections (not audio, obviously) but 4 or 5 is generally accepted to be the practical limit. 

 

1 hour ago, Richard10002 said:

Perhaps Victron is the weakest link and dont allow a phone to connect to two of its' gizmos at the same time.

I would strongly suspect that to be the case.  

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1 hour ago, WotEver said:

The audio spec over Bluetooth only permits a single stream. So yes, you can pair multiple audio devices but only connect to one at a time. For other devices the Bluetooth spec states up to 7 simultaneous connections (not audio, obviously) but 4 or 5 is generally accepted to be the practical limit. 

 

to be honest, I spent about a minute trying to connect to the MPPT whilst connected to the BMV but it was with a new android phone that I have never bluetoothed to anything else. Entirely possible it is the phone. I just have an aversion to faffing around so left the old phone connected to the BMV from where I can read voltage very well.

At some stage I will have another look at connecting to both at the same time but it was not as 'plug and play' as I thought.

 

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I went from a basic pwm to a victron blue solar. Its chalk and cheese. My dumbguage shows up to 14.4 v at which point it floats. Before max output was 13.6. Fit and forget. I only have 140 w solar but only 220 amp bats.

last few days its been at float just before noon.

Sorry max voltage  was 13.6

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On 20/06/2018 at 21:34, roland elsdon said:

I went from a basic pwm to a victron blue solar. Its chalk and cheese.

 

Thanks Roland. 

 

I took your (and others') advice and bought a BlueSolar MPPT 75/15 from Midland chandeliers yesterday and binned the crappy Bimble item. 

 

It is currently harvesting 7.4A from my 100w panel at 8am (panel tilted to face sun)! But now a new question arises.

 

The thin wires connecting it to the battery are dropping 0.5v between the controller output terminals and the battery terminals. Initially I thought I need to install much fatter wires to get rid of this volt drop, but do I really? Thinking about how the MPPT works, I think it raises its terminal voltage to account for volt drop in the output wires, meaning no extra current will flow if I fit fatter wires. 

 

What does the team think?

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I'm no expert, but I'd say that, once the current has left the MPPT it has no idea what happens to it. Having said that, it's the batteries that control the flow, in the sense that they draw what they want, based upon their increasing internal resistance.

 

I'd say thicker wires to get the drop down. I think 3% is acceptable for the run to things being supplied by the batteries, but I think the acceptable %age is much less for the run from a source of charging power - cant recall why?

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In winter it is often the case that the charging voltage is only just achieved via the solar panels and controller. If for example 14.2v is available at the controller and 0.5v is lost between mppt and battery then the charging voltage at the battery will only be 13.7 which is insufficient for charging. With thicker cables you may be able to get some charging in winter by reducing the 0.5v drop. For the relatively small outlay I have used the thickest cables the controller will accept. 

Basically I'm saying why throw away a potential winter charging opportunity for the sake of 2 wires. 

As always, when dealing with electrics I'm happy to accept any corrections to my logic if it wrong. 

 

Edited by reg
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