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Sea Dog

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Having tried Satellite TV afloat a few years ago and been put off by the clunky receiver I inherited with the boat, I thought it time to review my decision to sail without the little magnetic Sat dish (currently semi-retired in the garage) and check whether things had moved on.  I know there's some of you with satellite trackers and others with all the latest and greatest gear, but I'm hoping you'll apply your knowledge to the down market end for an occasional user like me.   

 

I'm not a total numpty - I installed a Humax Freesat PVR twin LNB set up at home when they first hit the market pre digital changeover when my terrestrial analogue signal was extremely poor.  On the moveable platform that is the boat, however, I found the set up a faff and the unit itself didn't help much in terms of feedback to get the final adjustment good enough.  To be fair, it was probably a cheapo at a time when good ones carried a premium price.  My current dish I can live with - it worked well when static after achieving a decent alignment, the mag mount is a corker providing a rigid mount to the roof, the elevation locks well and it doesn't change much anyway and the bearing is pretty easy to adjust.  My key requirements are that I only really want Freesat channels, it has to be a unit which doesn't need setting up again after every time the inverter is switched off, and I don't want to spend a lot of time on my roof shouting "How about now?" whilst the missus relays an endless series of indecipherable or conflicting reports.   I'm wondering whether something tiny like the Manhatten SX Freesat box at 50 quid might be adequate for my needs?  If its not, and the kit I would really need so as not to get frustrated and put it all back in the garage is going to get expensive, then I can live without Sat tv, but I know it would be short sighted of me to dismiss it out of hand.. 

 

If anyone has similar needs they've satisfied, or if there's a satellite tv buff amongst us who doesn't mind slumming it with the ameteurs, I'd be most grateful to be brought into 2018!

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I've got a dish and sat finder that I bought from Aldi for £40 a few years ago. The tuner was crap - found hundreds ofchannels, mostly duplicates, and didn't remember favourites when switched off.  I bought a "Manhatten" HD Freesat tuner from Currys for £28 and also a magmount to replace the Aldi sucker (£25).

The setup works really well, and I never need to retune.  Get all the HD channels.  The satfinder works well also, and usually takes me less than two minutes to set up, with 95%+ signal strength and quality.

 

You need a proper Freesat tuner, not a cheapo from Maplins or ebay which will find lots of channels most of which are encrypted and you don't need.

Edited by dor
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To get the ball rolling - doubtless others will disagree...

Your old Humax PVR is still good today and if your  dish solution can handle two LNB cables, then you can record as well!

Your problem seems to be with setting up the dish each time you stop - I assume you move around and that's nothing to do with the Humax which retains the settings.

FWIW I've stopped using a clunky 56cm dish and now use a flat panel instead 'cos it stores more easily in the cabin - it also has a wide acceptance angle, so you don't have to be quite so precise when setting it when you move to a different location. A decent signal finder also helps.

To summarise:-

  • Humax Foxsat PVR
  • Selfsat flat dish
  • Fringe electronics finder (I have a combined sat and TV model - we still use Freeview when there trees in the way)

Works for us

The last two can be had from Amazon returns - both in mint condition, save some cash! 

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Thanks for those comments.

 

Dor, it's the current tiny Manhatten SX that I was looking at, possibly a successor to yours(?) so maybe a resonable candidate.

 

OG, I still have the Humax which was my home setup until we went digital and freeview removed the need.  It was good kit, so would probably still do a decent job aboard, but I was hoping for something less bulky to sit under the TV. That said, I do have an hdmi run from the TV to a cupboard next to the coax point so it might be worth a try.  I suspect my finder might be one of the cheapo ones you refer to - it was fine for aligning the static dish at home, but I guess it might not be enough for mobile use.

 

Thanks again!

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Your suggestion of the Manhatten got me thinking about space as well. Their ad: states '400 channels'. Freesat itself says 200 channels, so I'm guessing that the Manhatten just receives ALL the channels available to view from the UK - so you may well be in the same loop as before. At least on the Humax you can create a list of favourites - and then select from that.

Remember whatever kit you use there is a warmup period when the device scans the 'index' on the Freesat home page and that takes a few moments and that may be the delay that you complained about.

Happy viewing!

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22 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Remember whatever kit you use there is a warmup period when the device scans the 'index' on the Freesat home page and that takes a few moments and that may be the delay that you complained about.

Thanks again, OG.

 

To be honest I can't really remember what the issues were with the unit on the boat, it was just that the set up faff factor exceeded the "I've had enough of this" threshold so I stopped bothering with it!  If that's no longer the case or there's a relatively cheap (cos I'm not in desperate need for more telly) way to improve things, I'll give it another go.

 

How much of an issue is the 200/400 channel thing on the Manhatten likely to be? Do some units have a memory which allows complete power down and still retains something valuable to the next set up process in a slightly different location?

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18 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

How much of an issue is the 200/400 channel thing on the Manhatten likely to be? Do some units have a memory which allows complete power down and still retains something valuable to the next set up process in a slightly different location?

I watch Freeview on our boat, and find it seems to get about 130 channels, which includes all the channels which might be of interest, along with plenty that are of no interest :). What more do you get with Freesat that you don't get with Freeview?

 

On my TV at home, when I tune in the Freesat channels, there do seem to be hundreds, but many are repeated, and they are not in any manageable order.

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3 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

What more do you get with Freesat that you don't get with Freeview?

 

For me, it would simply be the option of good reception where there's a view of the sky but a poor terrestrial TV signal, nothing more.

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6 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

 What more do you get with Freesat that you don't get with Freeview?

 

The ability to tune into your own "local" TV area and programmes when you are away from your home region. Plus there are some channels that are mutually exclusive.

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5 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Thanks again, OG.

 

To be honest I can't really remember what the issues were with the unit on the boat, it was just that the set up faff factor exceeded the "I've had enough of this" threshold so I stopped bothering with it!  If that's no longer the case or there's a relatively cheap (cos I'm not in desperate need for more telly) way to improve things, I'll give it another go.

 

How much of an issue is the 200/400 channel thing on the Manhatten likely to be? Do some units have a memory which allows complete power down and still retains something valuable to the next set up process in a slightly different location?

Your original post stated

"My key requirements are that I only really want Freesat channels"

so I was directing my thoughts to that. It's many years since I played with an unrestricted sat receiver and I recall you had to select the particular group of satellites that you wanted to use, moreover I can't remember whether there was a programme guide for each channel that you want  to use. With Freesat (as you do with your home TV on Freeview), you get a programme guide and on the Humax box you can set up recordings as well (with some restrictions). You can't  record on the Manhatten and I don't know whether it has a programme guide either. [edit on the fly] - belay that, the SX is the freesat version  of the Manhatten and does have the freesat programme guide - so that demolishes my argument - sorry for misleading you. The promo looks good. Even I'm tempted since I have two Humax boxes on the boat in case (as often happens) there's a programme clash!

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34 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Your original post stated

"My key requirements are that I only really want Freesat channels"

Yeah, that was to avoid lots of advice about Sky or other subscription stuff that I wouldn't be using.  Thanks for your thoughts again, and I like the "belay that...": not a term I hear much in Civvy Street! :)

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23 hours ago, OldGoat said:

To get the ball rolling - doubtless others will disagree...

Your old Humax PVR  A decent signal finder also helps.

To summarise:-

  • Humax Foxsat PVR
  • Selfsat flat dish
  • Fringe electronics finder (I have a combined sat and TV model - we still use Freeview when there trees in the way)

 

We have a Humax Freesat box, twin lnb Sky dish and a Fringe combined finder. Works brilliantly, on average it takes me 30 seconds to get the signal after plugging in the finder.

 

I have bought a selection of male/female of these to allow me to plug the finder in quickly and temporarily: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/F-Type-Female-to-Coaxial-Aerial-Female-Adapter-TV-Satellite-Coaxial-Connector-/361378532178

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3 hours ago, MHS said:

We have a Humax Freesat box...

Thanks MHS.  I suppose, since I have a perfectly good Humax Freesat PVR sat doing nothing, I ought to give it a go. Its the size that puts me off, but hey.

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12 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Thanks MHS.  I suppose, since I have a perfectly good Humax Freesat PVR sat doing nothing, I ought to give it a go. Its the size that puts me off, but hey.

Yup!

A suggestion -

Get your satellite finding sorted first

Explore the possibilities of putting the Foxsat somewhere else - I put mine on top of the Fridge (It's a standalone FF) 

See if you can make use of the record and other facilities.

 

Then if you're still unhappy get a Manhattan....

 

Seemples.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Heartbreakingly, I am guessing that the guy who ran the website "satellite for caravans" has now died. He was an older man but he had the most amazing webpage ever regarding satellites, alignments and their relative transponders. Unfortunately, that website doesn't seem to exist now. 

 

Being an engineer, I lapped up all the information and understood it and much to the annoyance of all those who see me do it, I can now set up a satellite dish with a compass and no box virtually perfectly. Usually I just use the gauge on my (Pace 430N) Sky Plus box or Humax PVR. I don't often do it on the boat but I do have to do it on caravans and people's houses!

 

For some time I have been thinking about recreating that information - it will take a long time to get it as detailed as he had it (it was a fascinating read) but it sounds like there might be a call for it? A winter project perhaps.

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5 minutes ago, twelveeyedfish said:

Heartbreakingly, I am guessing that the guy who ran the website "satellite for caravans" has now died. He was an older man but he had the most amazing webpage ever regarding satellites, alignments and their relative transponders. Unfortunately, that website doesn't seem to exist now. 

 

Being an engineer, I lapped up all the information and understood it and much to the annoyance of all those who see me do it, I can now set up a satellite dish with a compass and no box virtually perfectly. Usually I just use the gauge on my (Pace 430N) Sky Plus box or Humax PVR. I don't often do it on the boat but I do have to do it on caravans and people's houses!

 

For some time I have been thinking about recreating that information - it will take a long time to get it as detailed as he had it (it was a fascinating read) but it sounds like there might be a call for it? A winter project perhaps.

You may be able to see most of the content on the Wayback Machine. : https://archive.org/web/

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Ah, yes there it is! Maybe I will get in touch and see if there's a response. Perhaps it can be resurrected - if it were me, i'd be pleased if someone were carrying it on. For now, this seems to be the index page - it's all a bit spread out as it grew organically but there are some treasures in there which are relevant to boaters and caravanners alike.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20150423022649/http://www.satelliteforcaravans.co.uk:80/index.htm

 

 

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We had a HUMAX box when we got the boat in 2011. A single channel non-HD. Now we have a dual channel HD Humax. Perhaps 2013 vintage? It works fine, but is irritatingly unresponsive (slow to respond) to remote button presses. In my caravan I have el cheapo ebay Kodi box. Works, but pretty clunky with a surprisingly awful and inconsistent HMI (Human Machine Interface). Annoying EPG that only knows what is on a channel when you select that channel. Doesn’t have a hard disk, does support recording onto a USBstick, but badly!

 

At home we recently dumped Sky and got the latest HUMAX smart Freesat box. It’s much, much better than the one on the boat, much smaller and uses much less power (and is powered from a separate 12v supply, meaning it could easily be powered direct from the boat’s 12v system. Progress!

 

So my point is that you tend to get what you pay for!

 

We use a Travelsat dish with mag mount. Because I can see the tv screen whilst adjusting the dish, I don’t need or have a satfinder. I just press the info button to get the bars of strength and quality. Normally I get 100% on both in less than 30 seconds (having previously looked at the map to see where the satellite is).

 

Only irritation with Freesat is that if you watch BBC 1 HD, it is not regionalised so when local news comes on after the main news, well it doesn’t come on. You have to switch to a non-HD version of BBC 1 to get local news.

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8 hours ago, twelveeyedfish said:

Heartbreakingly, I am guessing that the guy who ran the website "satellite for caravans" has now died

Apparently not :)

 

He just got tired of running it I guess...

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/club-together/discussions/welcome-hobby-talk/caravan-motorhome-chat/satellite-for-caravans/

 

In the meantime this site may be helpful: https://www.sky4caravans.co.uk/about/

  • Happy 1
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I guess Sea Dog's problems breakdown into two issues.

- the faff setting up the dish

- what to use as a tuner/recorder.

I've been using satellite this year and gone down the Sky Q route 'cause I like watching footy and rugby. For setting up the dish, I find my sat finder is great...and if there is a good line of sight to the satellite, i can set it up in a couple of minutes. Sky Q uses a 'funny' lnb so I had to get a normal 60cm dish which is mounted on a vertical stub. Dead easy to rotate etc. The only issue I have is that when using a compass to try and get the bearing, the metal of the boat skews the compass bearing. Usually I get the approx direction from looking at the map of the canal and then tuning via the sat finder and ignoring the compass. The faff comes if there are any trees in the way and the signal is marginal or non existant and then  it can be a real faff. The trick is parking the boat where it wont be a faff...no trees...which in this recent weather is a problem. Once I have a signal, it is very stable as the dish seems to give fairly broad coverage if the boat rocks or rotates.

For the tuner, sky Q is a compromise. Great recording potential but you cant watch recorded problems if switched off and no signal on booting up. You therefore need to leave it on in standby when no dish in place. That takes a lot of power .....I think around 3A.....and the box gets hot. That's 36Ahrs if its on 24/7. eeeek. So you either park under trees in the cool and listen to music or park in the sun with loads of power and watch the footy.

We do also have a tv aerial so can get digital freeview if no Sky.

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You may find my Satellite Sundial useful in setting up. http://keeping-up.co.uk/Sundial/sunhome.htm

 

Used with a finder for fine tuning I can usually set up the dish within less than a minute including the time taken to put it on the roof and connect the cable.

 

It also particularly helps you find the place to come to a halt where the dish will be able to see the satellite properly.

  • Greenie 1
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29 minutes ago, Keeping Up said:

You may find my Satellite Sundial useful in setting up. http://keeping-up.co.uk/Sundial/sunhome.htm

 

Used with a finder for fine tuning I can usually set up the dish within less than a minute including the time taken to put it on the roof and connect the cable.

 

It also particularly helps you find the place to come to a halt where the dish will be able to see the satellite properly.

What a wonderful tool!! Thanks for posting it.

.....great in the summer and I will use it to get the 'gap in the trees' before we tie up.......but what about the winter. Its often difficult to tell the difference between the sun and the moon as we dont see them that often?

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We use a dedicated SatNav (bought it many years ago so that we could see how fast we were  going - to counter folks who shout "you're speeding") - we use that to spot 'sat capable' mooring sites before we stop. Most mobiles can use 'Play' to get a free compass??

Sorted.  

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Thank-you for keeping this tread refreshed chaps!  To update you on where the earlier advice got me:

 

I have my old Humax Freesat HD PVR on board now (probably the same as Nicknorman's) and have had a 3 goes with it.  First time was pretty useless as I was on the wrong satellite (19E I guess) and couldn't seem to find the right 28E job whatever I did.  Next attempt went much better and having found 19E again pretty easily I was then able to find 28E (easy to tell, because the Humax uses postcodes for regional TV and it verifies your input off the list on the right satellite) and get the elevation dialed in correctly.  Third time was then quick as I just needed to find the right bearing by starting too far East and slowly tracking South to find the first strong signal.  That might have been a fluke, so it's a bit early to say I'm sorted but I feel close.  I used a sat dish pointing app to see whether I had a clear view of the satellite on the correct bearing but that needs me to be moored up first so the the sundial thing looks well worth a go.

 

Thanks again for the tips and help. :)

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If it’s the same box as us, the following might be helpful:

 

being a freesat box, it ignores most other satellites, unlike a satfinder which beeps at any old satellite. So if you can see the tv screen whilst setting up its much easier. It does react to the next satellite further south, giving a “this channel is scrambled” etc message in place of “no signal”. So I then rotate it slightly further east to get the right one. Only trouble is that sometimes, even though it’s on the right satellite, I still get the “scrambled” message. However flicking the channel up to BBC2 and back, fixes it.

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