Batteries (Oh no not another thread....)

[MtB]

10 hours ago, smileypete said:

Doesn't mean he's not highly opinionated, or possibly downright wrong, or that the sterling charger manuals may not contain misleading twaddle...

 

240V fridge makes sense in some cases but not always.

 

Having seen his videos he strikes me as one of these people who simplifies things, misses the subtleties and thinks only in headlines. A trait often seen in successful businessmen e.g. Charlie Mullins, Donald Trump, Alan Sugar et al.

 

A very good trait when running a business, not so good in the world of engineering.  

[cereal tiller]

19 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

Be changing your house over to 12v then?

Mike's House is 6 Volt....

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

Mike's House is 6 Volt....

 

How did you know?!

 

But 240v is for dry environments like houses. 12v is for potentially wet environments like boats and cars.

 

Stands to reason dunnit!

[OldGoat]

25 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Having seen his videos he strikes me as one of these people who simplifies things, misses the subtleties and thinks only in headlines. A trait often seen in successful businessmen e.g. Charlie Mullins, Donald Trump, Alan Sugar et al.

 

A very good trait when running a business, not so good in the world of engineering.  

Believe me you don't want to get CS in his technical mode  - he'd confuse even a PhD. That's why he compensates  by over simplifying the subject in hand. I linked my post to his video because I'd not seen anything like it before and because it shows graphically all the things that folks on here had being saying for years with actual results on a graph. You have to listen very carefully and listen again several times to absorb some of his points.

Folks attack CS and his products - but who else makes an attempt do not only describes the products, but also explains some of the reasoning behind them.

 

I did some tests on inverters and fridges earlier and found that none of them would start a FF in power saving mode. The Sterling 1600W Pro Power had the lowest standby current at 1/2 amp  (24v). If anyone is looking for a low standby unit then Bimble's Epever 1000w inverter has a low standby draw - but they don't list a 12v version.

[Richard10002]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

How did you know?!

 

But 240v is for dry environments like houses. 12v is for potentially wet environments like boats and cars.

 

Stands to reason dunnit!

Presumably high Amps are safer than high volts?

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Presumably high Amps are safer than high volts?

 

Yes far safer in terms of risk of electrocution. But far more dangerous in terms of risk of fire (as Bizz points out). 

So... it depends on your definition of 'safe', dunnit!

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Presumably high Amps are safer than high volts?

The electric fence around our horse paddocks is running at about 10,000 volts but only 120 mille amps.

 

Amps Kill, voltage doesn't.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[ditchcrawler]

At the moment I am feeling very lucky that I ought a Mastervolt inverter all those years ago. 

[MtB]

32 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Amps Kill, voltage doesn't.

 

Only half the story however.

 

A 240Vac shock can easily deliver a current well in excess of 120mA into a human body. Your electric fence is carefully designed to limit the shock current to 120mA. 10,000V without the fancy electronics would probably burn the human body horribly.

 

A 12Vdc source is highly unlikely to deliver 120mA into a human body.  

[sirweste]

37 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The electric fence around our horse paddocks is running at about 10,000 volts but only 120 mille amps.

 

Amps Kill, voltage doesn't.

I really dislike that saying, it's frustratingly over simplified.  

 

and "but only" 0.12 A is enough to mess with your blood pump

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Only half the story however.

 

A 240Vac shock can easily deliver a current well in excess of 120mA into a human body. Your electric fence is carefully designed to limit the shock current to 120mA. 10,000V without the fancy electronics would probably burn the human body horribly.

 

A 12Vdc source is highly unlikely to deliver 120mA into a human body.  

So, you are agreeing - 220v and 10,000 volts will both 'hurt the same' 

120Ma at 220v and 10,000 volts will 'hurt the same'

15 amps at 220v and 10,000 volts will probably kill you.

 

Is an Electric Fence Dangerous?

No, an electric fence is not dangerous. The voltage being sent through the wires is high, but the current or amplification (amps) is very low. A 220-volt shock will hurt just as much as a 10,000-volt shock, as long as the current or amps are the same. Amps are what kills. Electric fence energisers put out high voltage (around 8,000 volts), but very low amperage or current (around 120 milliamps). This is 120-thousands of an amp. It should not even kill a squirrel.
This output is made safe in two ways, firstly by releasing the flow of electrons from the capacitor in regular pulses of high voltage but very low amperage. The amperage component of the electrical charge is greatly reduced to figures in the range of 15 - 500 milliAmps. (The majority of units operate in the 100-150milliAmp range)*. Mains electricity is 13-15 Amps...………………

Compare this with two other scenarios.
1/.Static Electricity when you touch a door, about 30000 volts at 5 milliamps for 1/1000th. of a second, unpleasant but not lasting.
2/.Mains Electricity. 220volts at 13 Amps and constant, unpleasant and regularly causes death.
With low amps and a pulsating current, electrical fencing is a safe product. It is the amperage within the electrical charge and the constant connection that makes electricity dangerous. 

[MtB]

Who here has an electric fence on their boat? 

 

I hold electric fences are an irrelevance when comparing the relative risks to life of 240Vac and 12Vdc. 

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Who here has an electric fence on their boat? 

 

I hold electric fences are an irrelevance when comparing the relative risks to life of 240Vac and 12Vdc. 

Totally non-relevant to boating but in relation to the question asked :-

 

1 hour ago, Richard10002 said:

Presumably high Amps are safer than high volts?

and your reply :

 

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Yes far safer in terms of risk of electrocution. ………….

 

You suggested that 'yes' high volts were less safe than high amps.

 

I showed that in fact it is not high voltage that is dangerous, therefore I believe the comparison is valid.

If I had simply said 'high voltage is not dangerous', no doubt someone would have responded "have you any evidence of that".

Edited June 18, 2018 by Alan de Enfield