Jump to content

Hour meter


Featured Posts

Since the hour meter on my dash is intermittent at best - i want to install a separate hour meter to keep track of hours properly.

 

As far as im aware it's 2 wires - ground and a positive from the ignition somewhere?

 

where is a good place to tap into and a good meter to get?

 

beta 43 

 

thanks

Edited by rawsondsr
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

The same places as the existing one would be easiest.

Depends, my original hour meter is integrated into the tacho which I think is quite common, one wire is 0volts and the other goes to the alternator and is fed AC from there, presumably this is rectified to power the hour meter, but as it is all in the dial housing I don't know. I tapped into the fuel pump wire from the control panel which is energised when the key is turned, so not when the engine starts but near enough. This has worked for several years now with the 'original hour meter occasionally showing the numbers and the new one always showing the numbers. One would hope they showed the same but over the last 1000 hours the original has crept up by 8 hours over the new one, so which is right? both are near enough for the oil change/service interval though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have a beta 43 and a separate hr gauge as the original in the rev counter must have died. No idea how it is wired in but the whole main panel died when the connection block from panel to engine came apart so guess the original meter was driven by one of the 3 wires to the alternator connector block..50A alternator. Not been able to trace what the newer meter is connected to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Typical hour meters integrated in rev counters have 3 wires. +, -, and W. W connects to the W terminal on the alternator that provides half wave rectified pulses from one of the generating phases. Because no one knows the alternator pulley ratio and number of pole puces in the alternator on any particular boat the revcounter is fitted with some method of adjusting the revs reading to get an accurate RPM reading.

 

Separate electrical  hour meters usually have just a + and a - and as the OP say the + is often connected to the  same ignition switch connection as the warning lamp or instruments. It can be connected to any warning lamp or instrument positive and some have paired terminals to facilitate this. The problem with this is if the ignition is left on with the engine stopped the meter keeps counting hours. One way out of this that MIGHT 9or might not) solve the issue is t feed the positive from the cable running between the alternator & warning lam. With the ignition on and the engine stopped this will have  a very low voltage on it because of the volt drop across the warning lamp. When the engine is charging it will have close to the charging voltage on it so the meter runs.

 

There are potential problems with this. If a split charge relay is fed from here it MIGHT overload the field diodes in the alternator. By drawing current frm the warning lamp circuit you may find alternator requires more revs to energise  but a larger wattage bulb or a resistor in parallel with the bulb may well solve this if its a problem to you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

 

Separate electrical  hour meters usually have just a + and a - 

I fitted a separate meter, I think it s made by Durite. Mounted inside the boat where it stays dry.  There are three wires, +, -, and sense.  The + and - are permanently connected, and the sense wire feeds the counter.  i suppose ideally it should be connected so that it is only live when the engine is running, but in practice it can be tapped in to anything that is live when the ignition is on.  I does mean it will still count when the ignition is on and the engine not running, but how often does that occur for any length of time.

When my tacho hour counter does decide to display a readable figure, it is about 1% ahead of the Durite, not enough to worry about.

You can leave the sense wire connected to a live for a while to get it to catch up with what the hours should be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, dor said:

I fitted a separate meter, I think it s made by Durite. Mounted inside the boat where it stays dry.  There are three wires, +, -, and sense.  The + and - are permanently connected, and the sense wire feeds the counter.  i suppose ideally it should be connected so that it is only live when the engine is running, but in practice it can be tapped in to anything that is live when the ignition is on.  I does mean it will still count when the ignition is on and the engine not running, but how often does that occur for any length of time.

When my tacho hour counter does decide to display a readable figure, it is about 1% ahead of the Durite, not enough to worry about.

You can leave the sense wire connected to a live for a while to get it to catch up with what the hours should be.

 

The cases of Durite gauges seem to be the same across the whole range so that will all have marks showing +, - and S for sender. I thought they did not fit studs in those that are not needed but who knows. The first thing I would say is to be sure what you say is correct please check the wiring instructions. I suspect the S (sender) stud is not used. If I am wrong then try the S terminal on the warning lamp wire as I describe above BUT if t is a sense wire then it may still work with the ignition on and engine off because it will only draw a few mA.

 

I suppose in theory they could use the alternator W terminal that is only live when charging to tell the meter to start counting but I have not seen that. on a simple hour counter.  Again you need to consult the instructions. The hour counters we used on the training engines did not use the S terminal.

 

If the S terminal is unused then connecting it will do no damage but it will have no effect on anything.

 

If it turns out that I am correct about the S terminal then where you connect it is up to you. The ignition fed auxiliary circuit will be fine and its w0rth a try on the warning lamp wire.

 

If you had worked on a hire fleet you would not have to ask how leaving the ignition on and the engine off happens. It is especially prelevent when the engine has a pull type stop cable control or like Betas where you ed the ignition on for the stop to work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I have a hours meter that needs no wiring at all. It senses the vibration of the engine running.

 

I bought it on ebay 7 or 8 years ago.

Mike let me explain. The engine is a beta therefore the base unit is some Superb Japanese engineered bit of kit that doesnt vibrate till your teeth fall out. Its not some old British mud weight ?

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Mike let me explain. The engine is a beta therefore the base unit is some Superb Japanese engineered bit of kit that doesnt vibrate till your teeth fall out. Its not some old British mud weight ?

A sort of related story.

 

Back in the day i went on a course given by one of the engine analyser companies, probably Crypton. A number of us who also worked with diesels asked about the possibility of an easy to connect diesel rev counter & timing light for diagnostic work. The chap told us that they had developed one hat clipped onto no. 1 injector pipe and it worked very well in all their tests. They the  sent samples to a number of British Road Services depots for "real life" testing and were told they were rubbish and did not work. Investigation showed that there was so much wear in the engine, especially the timing gear, the device counted all sorts of shocks as injection pulses. End of product.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Mike let me explain. The engine is a beta therefore the base unit is some Superb Japanese engineered bit of kit that doesnt vibrate till your teeth fall out. Its not some old British mud weight ?

 

Ah I forgot, you like engines with all the personality of a blank piece of A4 paper.

 

Mine doesn't vibrate at all. It clonks about once a second, and likes to be thanked for a good day's work when shut down. A bit like my batteries :D

  • Happy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

A sort of related story.

 

Back in the day i went on a course given by one of the engine analyser companies, probably Crypton. A number of us who also worked with diesels asked about the possibility of an easy to connect diesel rev counter & timing light for diagnostic work. The chap told us that they had developed one hat clipped onto no. 1 injector pipe and it worked very well in all their tests. They the  sent samples to a number of British Road Services depots for "real life" testing and were told they were rubbish and did not work. Investigation showed that there was so much wear in the engine, especially the timing gear, the device counted all sorts of shocks as injection pulses. End of product.

I think #Loddon had one of those on a JP3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

The cases of Durite gauges seem to be the same across the whole range so that will all have marks showing +, - and S for sender. I thought they did not fit studs in those that are not needed but who knows. The first thing I would say is to be sure what you say is correct please check the wiring instructions. I suspect the S (sender) stud is not used. If I am wrong then try the S terminal on the warning lamp wire as I describe above BUT if t is a sense wire then it may still work with the ignition on and engine off because it will only draw a few mA.

 

 

The hour counter will need a + and - separate to the sense wire so that it displays when no voltage is on the sense wire.  I guess you could just fit a counter that only displays when the ignition is on, but I like to be able to see the hours without the ignition on. I suppose this is the same as the ones built into the tacho, which only display when the ignition is on.

I don't know what would happen if you just connected the negative and the sense wire - perhaps it would work as you suggest, i.e. count the hours when the sense wire is live, but not display when it is not live.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I repeat the ones we ha don the training engines only had pos and neg. No need for a sense wire because  the instructions told you to wire from the ignition switch aux. terminal. Durite sell a number of hour counters so I can not say you are wrong but  can say you are not correct for some Durite meters. This is why I advised the OP to look a the installation instructions.

 

The OP did not specify what type f display they had, you may be correct for liquid crystal or LED displays but not for mechanical displays and after the problems with the rev counter displays I would not invite trouble buy fitting another LQ display.

 

Not sure I fancy a potentially permanent drain on the batteries.

Edited by Tony Brooks
  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got something like this for less than a £8 and probably cheaper if you get it direct from China. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-6V-50V-Hour-Meter-Hourmeter-Gauge-for-Boat-Car-Truck-Engine-Rhombus-UK-Q8Y4/153014102819?hash=item23a059eb23:g:Fr8AAOSw2VFa7oRE

 

Just 2 wires, runs when the ignition is on, always visible and if it does die, unlike lcd you can see where it counted to.

Edited by Chewbacka
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Ah I forgot, you like engines with all the personality of a blank piece of A4 paper.

If you want your motive power to come with personality you need a horse.  The advantage would be that one would do for both of your boats; the disadvantages are too numerous to list... but also include personality!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Mine doesn't vibrate at all. It clonks about once a second, and likes to be thanked for a good day's work when shut down. A bit like my batteries :D

In which case you don't need an hours meter, just a mechanical counter, geared so that 3600 clonks will advance it by 1.

50 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

If you want your motive power to come with personality

By Beta 43 has a personality -- its main facet is its reliability!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Not sure I fancy a potentially permanent drain on the batteries.

It goes off when the batteries are isolated!  I don't know what current it draws in use when it is just displaying but it is pretty minute.  Just think how long an LCD watch would last on a tiny battery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

I got something like this for less than a £8 and probably cheaper if you get it direct from China. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-6V-50V-Hour-Meter-Hourmeter-Gauge-for-Boat-Car-Truck-Engine-Rhombus-UK-Q8Y4/153014102819?hash=item23a059eb23:g:Fr8AAOSw2VFa7oRE

 

Just 2 wires, runs when the ignition is on, always visible and if it does die, unlike lcd you can see where it counted to.

I tried a similar one - very cheep but mine was not much use as when the digits rotated they stopped so that you mostly saw the spaces between the digits! The whole thing was very rattly.

 

Found a secondhand unopened Durite one on eBay for not much more than the cheap tat one.

Very nice quality - chalk and cheese really.

Just two wires to the “ignition” switch - job sorted?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On my Beta panel  with the black keyswitch (the silver one is different) the ignition switched positive feed is marked 15/54. Apparently the silver on is marked AC.

I fed my 2 wire Durite hour counter from that. I've not yet left the ignition on without the engine running.

 

Edit to add the Durite I used was Part Number 0-523-28. Left it connected to a battery for a couple of weeks to get the hours up to match the intermittent LCD one

Steve

Edited by sharpness
Added a bit
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

If you want your motive power to come with personality you need a horse.  The advantage would be that one would do for both of your boats; the disadvantages are too numerous to list... but also include personality!

But how do you get it out of the cut at the end of your cruise?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, WotEver said:

But how do you get it out of the cut at the end of your cruise?

I'm not sure why the horse would be in the cut, but that might be one of the "too numerous to list" disadvantages - although in many places at the moment it could just walk!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.