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Markinaboat

No shore power available unless charger is on.

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Recently changed boat and thought I'd turn the charger off for a while to work the batteries as mostly hooked up to shore power which is providing a satisfactory supply. It's a Mastervolt Inverter/charger (2000/60/24v) and as soon as I set it to off, the shore power was cut and no A/C. 

 

The boat is a 1999 Norton Canes with a professional fitout. Has several A/C breakers in a cupboard so definitely not a DIY job. 

 

Could there be a reason for this scenario?

 

thanks in advance for any feedback!

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Yes the Victron works the same way.   The shore power goes through the unit, turn the unit off and it will turn the AC off as well.   Unless you have a selector switch for shore/inverter/off to bypass it.

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1 minute ago, Robbo said:

Yes the Victron works the same way.   The shore power goes through the unit, turn the unit off and it will turn the AC off as well.   Unless you have a selector switch for shore/inverter/off to bypass it.

That's why I got my electrics rewired this winter to allow AC on the boat independent of the victron  combi. 

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Thanks guys.

 

Yep, there's no manual source selector. Thought it may have been automated by a box of tricks, assuming such box hasn't developed a fault. It's not a major issue unless the MV packs up altogether of course. 

 

Will find a sparks to modify in due course. 

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8 hours ago, Markinaboat said:

Will find a sparks to modify in due course. 

Be aware that there’s a reason for it working as it does, and that’s ‘Power Assist’. If you’re out and about and using a genny the MV will ‘assist’ the generator for any heavy load by supplying any extra power required from the batteries. So if you have a 1kVA genny and you load it with 1.5kVA the MV will supply the extra 500VA from the batteries. 

 

It may may well be that you’ll never want or even desire this facility, but I’m posting just to let you know ‘why’ it works as it does - it’s not just a dumb bit of design. 

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9 hours ago, Markinaboat said:

Recently changed boat and thought I'd turn the charger off for a while to work the batteries as mostly hooked up to shore power which is providing a satisfactory supply. It's a Mastervolt Inverter/charger (2000/60/24v) and as soon as I set it to off, the shore power was cut and no A/C. 

 

The boat is a 1999 Norton Canes with a professional fitout. Has several A/C breakers in a cupboard so definitely not a DIY job. 

 

Could there be a reason for this scenario?

 

thanks in advance for any feedback!

If you want to ‘work’ the batteries for a bit, rather than changing the wiring you could always disconnect the shore supply and go for a little cruise?

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This is the way all that inverter chargers work. There is no other way. Do not try to have it “modified”.

 

Why would you want to “work the batteries”? - each battery cycle shortens their life slightly. As said, if you really want to work the batteries simply unplug the shore power for a bit.

Edited by nicknorman

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49 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

This is the way all that inverter chargers work. There is no other way. Do not try to have it “modified”.

 

I agree, and providing they keep working without a glitch, it is clearly how things should be.

 

The only problem is that if for any reason they decide that intermittently they will not automatically switch everything over to land-line once connected, (and stay that way), then you have very little immediate recourse if things are not behaving as they should.

 

Clearly it shouldn't happen, particularly with an expensive Mastervolt.  However the elderly Heart Freedom Interface unit we had on our boat worked reliably 95% plus of the time, but had occasional "wobbles".  It was a big heavy unit, and to make any quick bypass to it required lugging it off the wall, to disconnect the AC input and output and wire them together - not something to contemplate late at night on the mooring when you realise the fridge was starting to defrost.

 

In the end I scrapped it, and went for much lower powered individual charger and inverter that I just happened to already own.

 

So in brief, automation is great when it works, but a PITA when it doesn't.

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The other problem with automatic switching is if the shore power trips the inverter kicks in and will happily flatten the batteries as you watch telly with the immersion on heating the water after your shower. I now leave the combi on charger only when on shore power, which kind of halfway defeats the object, if it gave a loud alarm for 30 seconds when the shore power goes it really wouldn't be a nuisance as you would expect it when unplugging and at other times it is nice to be warned.

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1 hour ago, Detling said:

The other problem with automatic switching is if the shore power trips the inverter kicks in and will happily flatten the batteries as you watch telly with the immersion on heating the water after your shower. I now leave the combi on charger only when on shore power, which kind of halfway defeats the object, if it gave a loud alarm for 30 seconds when the shore power goes it really wouldn't be a nuisance as you would expect it when unplugging and at other times it is nice to be warned.

Most models now have two outlets, one for items that should only be powered via shore/generator and the other from inverter.   You can also very simply add a contactor in your consumer box to do the same thing if your combi doesn’t have the dual outlets.   Leaving it on is good if you have a dodge shore supply, as it will switch to the inverter if something is a miss.

Edited by Robbo

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out of the several boats I've had over the past 18 years, it's the first that hasn't had a power source selector. Other than my previous boat which was also a Mastervolt system (with genny) which had auto-sensing so the inverter and seperate charger could be off but shore (or genny in as was the case then) power came through. The other reason I forgot to mention was to have a rest from the hum at night.

7 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

If you want to ‘work’ the batteries for a bit, rather than changing the wiring you could always disconnect the shore supply and go for a little cruise?

which is what I do at every given opportunity! Current contract finishes end of the month so will be off for sure to get blasted and two-packed (the boat not me ... well, maybe occasionally blasted!) ?

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55 minutes ago, Markinaboat said:

The other reason I forgot to mention was to have a rest from the hum at night.

Interesting. One of MV’s selling points is that their combis don’t hum. I always wondered if it was BS. 

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8 hours ago, Robbo said:

Most models now have two outlets

Not 10 years ago the Victron didn't, not worth spending loads of beer tokens changing it just for that.

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7 hours ago, WotEver said:

Interesting. One of MV’s selling points is that their combis don’t hum. I always wondered if it was BS. 

Ours doesn’t. The fan can cut in and out a bit (it’s variable speed) when it’s powering the boats 12v systems and we have a lot of lights on, but as soon as we go to bed and put the lights out, the fan stops and it’s silent.

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7 hours ago, Detling said:

Not 10 years ago the Victron didn't, not worth spending loads of beer tokens changing it just for that.

And I also said...  You can also very simply add a contactor in your consumer box to do the same thing.

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Having moved from a silent master volt Dakar to a victron multiplus combi I was really surprised by the humming from the victron unit and thought there might be something wrong.    But is it normal for there to be loud hum?  I yet to plug it into a land line to see how it works so this has been a really useful discussion.  

tom

Edited by Capella247

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4 minutes ago, Capella247 said:

Having moved from a silent master volt Dakar to a victron multiplus combi I was really surprised by the humming from the victron unit and thought there might be something wrong.   But is it normal for there to be loud hum?

tom

Mine doesn't.   Try turning things off to see what may be making it hum..

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9 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Ours doesn’t. The fan can cut in and out a bit (it’s variable speed) when it’s powering the boats 12v systems and we have a lot of lights on, but as soon as we go to bed and put the lights out, the fan stops and it’s silent.

That’s as I’d expect. As an hf inverter, what’s to hum?

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20 minutes ago, WotEver said:

That’s as I’d expect. As an hf inverter, what’s to hum?

I was talking about when it’s on shore power - not inverting. But yes presumably the 230v AC to 12v DC is some kind of switch mode circuit, not a great big transformer/rectifier! When we are off shore power, we leave the inverter on 24/7 and unless running something like the toaster or kettle, the fan doesn’t run and it’s completely silent.

 

The only thing that hums slightly is the Masterswitch which automatically selects between shore power and the Travelpower. I guess that is just a big electromagnetic contactor and it’s energised when on shore power. But it’s barely audible in the bedroom with the door to the engine room open

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