Anchor advice please

[Sea Dog]

4 minutes ago, howardang said:

 

The post I was commenting on specifically spoke about lowering an anchor. My comments are suggestions about how to do it. If someone is daft enough to try to anchor a boat with no provision to secure theanchor then there is no hope for them!

 

Howard

 

I mean any provision whatsoever, not specifically securing the bitter end.  

[howardang]

42 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

I mean any provision whatsoever, not specifically securing the bitter end.  

Whatever.

[Sea Dog]

1 hour ago, howardang said:

Whatever.

Well I'm not intentionally trying to argue with you Howard - I just don't know any narrowboats that have a chain locker, spurling pipe, winch, chain stopper, guide roller or hawse pipe.  Different vessels have various arrangements, but If you want to slip an anchor under control, and weigh it again, you've got a job on without a nod to a fair bit of that stuff.  The closest thing my narrowboat had to that from build, like the vast majority of others I'd suggest, is a tee stud which probably wouldn't survive the shock load of setting an anchor. The best most of us have or can accommodate is probably a decent securing point with a backplate for the bitter end and a bucket to flake the rode into such that it deploys smoothly without tangling when the anchor is dropped over the side.  I'd be quite happy to learn of better retrofit solutions at realistic cost.

[howardang]

44 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Well I'm not intentionally trying to argue with you Howard - I just don't know any narrowboats that have a chain locker, spurling pipe, winch, chain stopper, guide roller or hawse pipe.  Different vessels have various arrangements, but If you want to slip an anchor under control, and weigh it again, you've got a job on without a nod to a fair bit of that stuff.  The closest thing my narrowboat had to that from build, like the vast majority of others I'd suggest, is a tee stud which probably wouldn't survive the shock load of setting an anchor. The best most of us have or can accommodate is probably a decent securing point with a backplate for the bitter end and a bucket to flake the rode into such that it deploys smoothly without tangling when the anchor is dropped over the side.  I'd be quite happy to learn of better retrofit solutions at realistic cost.

I think you need to read what I actually posted, not what you think I posted. I never suggested slipping the anchor, nor did I suggested a requirement. All I suggested is taking a turn round a strong point and lowering it by hand. Nothing more, but it does allow controlled lowering. It is very basic seamanship. I don't quite see how you think that I am suggesting a full feep sea outfit, I am many things but I am not that stupid! My boat has a large ring bolt with backing plate which allows me to take a turn and when sufficient  has been paid out it is secured to a strong cleat. I also have a similar layout at the stern in case of anchoring from aft.

 

Howard

 

 

[Sea Dog]

9 hours ago, howardang said:

I think you need to read what I actually posted, not what you think I posted. I never suggested slipping the anchor, nor did I suggested a requirement. All I suggested is taking a turn round a strong point and lowering it by hand. Nothing more, but it does allow controlled lowering. It is very basic seamanship. I don't quite see how you think that I am suggesting a full feep sea outfit, I am many things but I am not that stupid! My boat has a large ring bolt with backing plate which allows me to take a turn and when sufficient  has been paid out it is secured to a strong cleat. I also have a similar layout at the stern in case of anchoring from aft.

 

Howard

 

 

Were at cross purposes Howard.  I'm not suggesting everyone must have all the seagoing anchoring gear in a narrowboat, nor that you personally do not have a sufficient strong point, and most certainly not that you are stupid.  Rather, I'm suggesting that the average narrowboat owner, not having any of that equipment other than a strongpoint (if they've properly considered it and not just plumbed for the tee stud), has no safe way to  control the deployment of an anchor other than to chuck it, particularly whilst suffering a propulsion or steering gear failure on a flowing river which is the only time they're likely to do so. 

 

What I think is that, for almost every narrowboat pilot, fitting or finding a decent strongpoint, flaking the rode in a way to ensure tangle free deployment and having the anchor already rigged somewhere it's readily accessible and easy to deploy from, even simply by dropping or throwing, is a difficult enough. 

 

If you are able to safely lower your anchor from a narrowboat, pay it out under control and set the length of rode deployed to suit the "anchorage" I think that's great, and if you practice it I applaud you, and if you can still do it that way whilst your boat is out of control I take my hat off to you... but, and this is my point, you're very much amongst the few exceptions. 

[howardang]

21 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Were at cross purposes Howard.  I'm not suggesting everyone must have all the seagoing anchoring gear in a narrowboat, nor that you personally do not have a sufficient strong point, and most certainly not that you are stupid.  Rather, I'm suggesting that the average narrowboat owner, not having any of that equipment other than a strongpoint (if they've properly considered it and not just plumbed for the tee stud), has no safe way to  control the deployment of an anchor other than to chuck it, particularly whilst suffering a propulsion or steering gear failure on a flowing river which is the only time they're likely to do so. 

 

What I think is that, for almost every narrowboat pilot, fitting or finding a decent strongpoint, flaking the rode in a way to ensure tangle free deployment and having the anchor already rigged somewhere it's readily accessible and easy to deploy from, even simply by dropping or throwing, is a difficult enough. 

 

If you are able to safely lower your anchor from a narrowboat, pay it out under control and set the length of rode deployed to suit the "anchorage" I think that's great, and if you practice it I applaud you, and if you can still do it that way whilst your boat is out of control I take my hat off to you... but, and this is my point, you're very much amongst the few exceptions. 

As you say you and I are definitely at cross purposes, and what was meant by me as a small simple piece of advice has gone completely out of proportion - something that sometimes happens on this forum.  My intention was certainly not to imply super proficiency or indeed experience at anchoring a narrow boat under emergency conditions. I have never done anchored a narrow boat and I am definitely not setting myself up to be an exception and an expert. I would be surprised if there is anyone on this forum is one of those. Like, I would suspect 99.9% of inland boaters, I have never experienced such an event on the inland rivers, nor would I want to, and in the final analysis I would also struggle and find it difficult.

 

However, I think do differ a little with regard to my professional background which may help a little to alleviate some issues in a fraught situation such as anchoring under duress.  I haven't gone into details - I am sure people would find it boring - but I have a lifetime professional experience which, among other things,  has involved  extensive anchor work worldwide, sometimes in extreme conditions. Like you, I don't like to labour that point (I think you did mention that you were involved in the "other" navy), but I do from time to time try to explain to other boaters - maybe not very well - who may not be familiar with some general principles, what they might try to do to help themselves. Like many seamanship problems, they will have to adapt what they can to their own circumstances, but that little bit of knowledge may just make the difference between a good outcome or not. If they want to listen that's great, if not well that is also their decision. 

 

We are all involved in a pastime which we enjoy, but it is for enjoyment.  I do not want to get involved in what this forum excels  at; long, circuitous point scoring and so on. Let's just draw a line and start again.

 

Howard

 

 

 

[Steve Manc]

2 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Were at cross purposes Howard.  I'm not suggesting everyone must have all the seagoing anchoring gear in a narrowboat, nor that you personally do not have a sufficient strong point, and most certainly not that you are stupid.  Rather, I'm suggesting that the average narrowboat owner, not having any of that equipment other than a strongpoint (if they've properly considered it and not just plumbed for the tee stud), has no safe way to  control the deployment of an anchor other than to chuck it, particularly whilst suffering a propulsion or steering gear failure on a flowing river which is the only time they're likely to do so. 

 

What I think is that, for almost every narrowboat pilot, fitting or finding a decent strongpoint, flaking the rode in a way to ensure tangle free deployment and having the anchor already rigged somewhere it's readily accessible and easy to deploy from, even simply by dropping or throwing, is a difficult enough. 

 

If you are able to safely lower your anchor from a narrowboat, pay it out under control and set the length of rode deployed to suit the "anchorage" I think that's great, and if you practice it I applaud you, and if you can still do it that way whilst your boat is out of control I take my hat off to you... but, and this is my point, you're very much amongst the few exceptions. 

Re:  What I think is that, for almost every narrowboat pilot, fitting or finding a decent strongpoint, flaking the rode in a way to ensure tangle free deployment and having the anchor already rigged somewhere it's readily accessible and easy to deploy from, even simply by dropping or throwing, is a difficult enough. 

 

I agree with this statement. I have seen anchors stored on narrowboats on fixed positions and locked at the rear or just placed on deck or the roof but with no chains or ropes in sight. Which is understandable if they are not required because they are on a canal.

 

If you are able to safely lower your anchor from a narrowboat, pay it out under control and set the length of rode deployed to suit the "anchorage" I think that's great, and if you practice it I applaud you, and if you can still do it that way whilst your boat is out of control I take my hat off to you... but, and this is my point, you're very much amongst the few exceptions. 

 

Re: Practice safe deployment and secured to a fixed secure point on the narrowboat is something I have  thought about.  The weight on ones back and arms, 20kg anchor + 5 meters of 10mm chain 10.5 kg + rope  x kg, then the drag weight of x kg.  Not something I would look forward to.

 

Then becomes the issue of will I be able to recover the anchor if it becomes fixed in the river bed? The rope will have to be cleaned and safely stored to ensure it will deploy when required. 

 

Already I am thinking where can I store the anchor when not required, which is probably over the rear end. The chain and rope may go in the gas locker  but will this break boat safety rules?  

 

The debate between Seadog and Howardang has been useful and has made me think further than what should I buy.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Steve Manc said:

Then becomes the issue of will I be able to recover the anchor if it becomes fixed in the river bed?

I would respectfully suggest that this should be the last consideration of your 'list'.

 

In the event of 'the worst has happened'  and your anchor has potentially saved your life, and your boat from being destroyed by rolling over a weir, you are concerned about recovering a £300 anchor ?

 

6 minutes ago, Steve Manc said:

The chain and rope may go in the gas locker  but will this break boat safety rules?  

Yes - nothing should be stored in a gas locker except a gas cylinder.

 

BSS 7:4:4

 

Cylinder lockers must not contain loose sharp or heavy items such as anchors
or mooring pins that could damage the cylinders or other LPG system
components.

[Steve Manc]

14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I would respectfully suggest that this should be the last consideration of your 'list'.

 

In the event of 'the worst has happened'  and your anchor has potentially saved your life, and your boat from being destroyed by rolling over a weir, you are concerned about recovering a £300 anchor ?

 

Yes - nothing should be stored in a gas locker except a gas cylinder.

 

BSS 7:4:4

 

Cylinder lockers must not contain loose sharp or heavy items such as anchors
or mooring pins that could damage the cylinders or other LPG system
components.

Alan

 

Re: 

I would respectfully suggest that this should be the last consideration of your 'list'.

 

In the event of 'the worst has happened'  and your anchor has potentially saved your life, and your boat from being destroyed by rolling over a weir, you are concerned about recovering a £300 anchor ?

 

I was talking about practicing deployment of the anchor. I wouldn't want to loose an anchor each time I practiced!

 

Agree if anchor deployed in an emergency and I saved the boat but loose an anchor that is a good result for me.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, Steve Manc said:

I was talking about practicing deployment of the anchor. I wouldn't want to loose an anchor each time I practiced!

Apologies - I hadn't linked the two paragraphs together.

 

 

[LadyG]

You can put a bouyed trip line on the anchor. at "the wrong end", use the thin trip line to upset the anchor [catch with a boathook].

Personally, I would not "practice" unless I had a crew on board. I know it's a practice, but you are really only trying out the deployment scenario, you probably won't be testing the tackle to any extreme.

A narrow boat is an awkward shape to manoevre in a muddy ditch or even a broader river.

Edited March 12, 2019 by LadyG

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Yes - nothing should be stored in a gas locker except a gas cylinder.

 

BSS 7:4:4

 

Cylinder lockers must not contain loose sharp or heavy items such as anchors
or mooring pins that could damage the cylinders or other LPG system
components.

Your first para is a bit extreme Alan. There’s nothing that I’m aware of that prohibits storing a rope in the locker just so long as it doesn’t have any metal shackles attached. 

[Alan de Enfield]

24 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Your first para is a bit extreme Alan. There’s nothing that I’m aware of that prohibits storing a rope in the locker just so long as it doesn’t have any metal shackles attached. 

A rope could block the drain hole.

 

BSS Section

7:3:3

Is the cylinder locker clear of any items that could block the drain?

 

7.3.4
Does the drain line fall continuously from the cylinder locker to the drain outlet and are
both ends clear of blockage?

 

NOTE – with the consent of the owner, a bucket of water can be used to aid verification

[howardang]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

Your first para is a bit extreme Alan. There’s nothing that I’m aware of that prohibits storing a rope in the locker just so long as it doesn’t have any metal shackles attached. 

I agree with Alan. One rope stowed tidily may well not cause a blockage. However, one rope leads to another, and before long, if one is not careful, the gas locker gradually turns into a general stowage facility.

 

it is good practice, in my view, not to stow anything in a gas locker.

 

Howard

 

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by howardang