Anchor advice please

[LadyG]

19 minutes ago, howardang said:

It's well up there.Funnily enough, a Fortress is a member of that unjustly derided anchor family er the Danforth!

 

Howard

That perhaps is why I would not trust a Fortress.

The Danforth is OK on the Solent and muddy ditches as an ornament..

I used a CQR for most of my sailing life, to be effective it needs to be a big beast and have lots of chain. 

Times have changed, there are anchors which dig in pretty much first time, and that is what is required.

Edited March 7, 2019 by LadyG

[bizzard]

On a very rocky bottom a traditional Fishermans anchor is best. The long curved flukes dig into crevices and hold like anything. Most fishermen know their bottoms, and each others.

Edited March 7, 2019 by bizzard

[LadyG]

20 minutes ago, bizzard said:

 Most fishermen know their bottoms, and each others.

bizz!

Edited March 7, 2019 by LadyG

[bizzard]

9 minutes ago, LadyG said:

bizz!

Butt they can't help noticing each others bottoms as they're bent over the gunnels most of the time casting nets and things.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, howardang said:

It's well up there.Funnily enough, a Fortress is a member of that unjustly derided anchor family er the Danforth!

 

Howard

It certainly is a distant relative to the family Danforth - however - the geometry, angle of the blade and shank are very different which gives them their holding advantage.

 

I realise that this is the manufacturers website and they obviously wouldn't publish any test where the anchor did not 'shine', but there is some interesting information if you have a 'flick-around' the site.

 

http://fortressanchors.com/advantage/benefits/stronger/

[howardang]

24 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It certainly is a distant relative to the family Danforth - however - the geometry, angle of the blade and shank are very different which gives them their holding advantage.

 

I realise that this is the manufacturers website and they obviously wouldn't publish any test where the anchor did not 'shine', but there is some interesting information if you have a 'flick-around' the site.

 

http://fortressanchors.com/advantage/benefits/stronger/

I did say that the Fortress is as member of the same family as indeed are some other derivitives also descended from the original design, and some of them are much better than the original, as is the Fortress. I am not a defender of a Danforth at any price, but I do think that it is not as bad an anchor as is sometimes made out. Like you, and I suspect some others in this debate, I do have direct experience of a variety of anchors in different scenarios, and I have to say that my experience has not given me the same opinion as yourself. Maybe you have had a bad experience which has coloured your view so we will just have to differ.

 

Howard

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, howardang said:

so we will just have to differ

That is all part of debating & discussing.

You don't need to 'fall-out' because you don't agree.

[howardang]

28 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That is all part of debating & discussing.

You don't need to 'fall-out' because you don't agree.

Alan, I certainly haven't fallen out with anyone, hence the imojis! There are better things than a discussion about anchors to cause a fall out! However, debate is fine, to some degree, but repeating the same arguments  over and over, reinforced by the same downloads from a variety of sources, apparently to wear down the opposition is where I draw the line. I have my views, others have theirs, and on this particular subject it appears that never the twain. So be it.

 

Howard

[Sea Dog]

Well, hopefully none of us will do a real world trial to explore the advantages or disadvantages of any particular anchor when deploying in and emergency fashion from an out of control narrowboat being carried by the flow of a river. Its all a bit "chuck it and hope" so all we can really do is keep an open mind and consider other opinion, tempered with the fact that all the various tests are done to assess performance in a different environment and almost all of the anchoring experience is also from that different environment. Only one thing is for sure: none of them are a bit of good if they're not onboard, not rigged ready for quick deployment,  or not securely fastened to something they're not going to take with them!  

[WotEver]

15 hours ago, Steve Manc said:

There is no point in posting this because it is there opinion which I am sure will result in further debate why they are wrong.

Surely that is the entire point of a discussion forum. If you just want a place where everyone agrees with everyone else and pats themselves on the back for their great judgment then join a Facebook group. 

 

I’m very interested in the arguments over which is the ‘best’ anchor and why. 

[Steve Manc]

  21 hLets     ago, Lets

Edited March 8, 2019 by Steve Manc

[Steve Manc]

Lets assume everyone has the correct anchor type for their boat.

 

I have booked my 50 foot narrowboat on the ribble link this summer. 

 

1, Using the following website what tab / section of the River Douglass and River Ribble  do I use to monitor the river levels? https://riverlevels.uk/levels/lancashire#.XIKYpvn7TIV

 

2, What is the maximum depth for the rivers when the tide is in but not in flood?

 

3, What length would you set the chain and rope before securing it to the front of the boat?  

[LadyG]

5 hours ago, Steve Manc said:

Lets assume everyone has the correct anchor type for their boat.

 

I have booked my 50 foot narrowboat on the ribble link this summer. 

 

1, Using the following website what tab / section of the River Douglass and River Ribble  do I use to monitor the river levels? https://riverlevels.uk/levels/lancashire#.XIKYpvn7TIV

 

2, What is the maximum depth for the rivers when the tide is in but not in flood?

 

3, What length would you set the chain and rope before securing it to the front of the boat?  

1] I don't know

2] I don't know

3] All of it needs to be secured to the pointy end.

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by LadyG

[Iain_S]

1) Ribble :Walton Le Dale,being the furthest downstream. Douglas : It looks like Wanes Blades is furthest downstream.  (Edited to add) Both of these are well upstream of the tidal bits, and I can't see the levels there making much difference to levels once it goes tidal, apart from, perhaps, the Douglas, where a higher level than normal will make things easier, as you have to punch a spring tide downstream on the Douglas on the way to the Ribble.

 

2) A quick look at my (expired!) Navionics app suggests that the Ribble isn't as deep as it looks : certainly less than 5 metres and nearer 2 metres, plus the height of the tide which at Preston is about 5 metres on springs, so maximum 10 metre depth, and more likely seven metres. West of the Asland light, it's a lot shallower, with drying heights of 3 metres on the chart, so only 2 metres water at high tide.

 

3) I'd secure the bitter end, but lower the anchor under control. It's not a good idea to just toss it overboard, especially if it's a Danforth or similar.  If you're over a deep bit (say 10 metres), a 5 to 1 scope will be about 55 metres, assuming a gunwale height of one metre. If you've got less anchor chain/rope, no need to worry, it'll catch eventually.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Iain_S
Additional text

[Scholar Gypsy]

I've not checked against the guidance for this trip, but don't you want to find

 

1) the tide times at Preston

2) a real time tide gauge for the Ribble that you can use to compare against the tide tables.

I have looked at gaugemap.co.uk, and all the stations in that area appear to be on non-tidal waterways

[howardang]

8 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

1) Ribble :Walton Le Dale,being the furthest downstream. Douglas : It looks like Wanes Blades is furthest downstream.

2) A quick look at my (expired!) Navionics app suggests that the Ribble isn't as deep as it looks : certainly less than 5 metres and nearer 2 metres, plus the height of the tide which at Preston is about 5 metres on springs, so maximum 10 metre depth, and more likely seven metres. West of the Asland light, it's a lot shallower, with drying heights of 3 metres on the chart, so only 2 metres water at high tide.

 

3) I'd secure the bitter end, but lower the anchor under control. It's not a good idea to just toss it overboard, especially if it's a Danforth or similar.  If you're over a deep bit (say 10 metres), a 5 to 1 scope will be about 55 metres, assuming a gunwale height of one metre. If you've got less anchor chain/rope, no need to worry, it'll catch eventually.

I agree with Iain S, especially his suggestions for no 3. Idealy it is good practise to carry more anchor rope/chain than you need, just in case you need to pay out more if you start to drag. If necessary you could consider mooring ropes.

 

Don't forget your anchor ball and anchor light and provide some method of displaying them correctly. 

 

Howard

[TheBiscuits]

40 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

I've not checked against the guidance for this trip, but don't you want to find

 

1) the tide times at Preston

2) a real time tide gauge for the Ribble that you can use to compare against the tide tables.

I have looked at gaugemap.co.uk, and all the stations in that area appear to be on non-tidal waterways

You won't be allowed to transit if the tide conditions are wrong.

 

Crossing the Ribble to do the link, you will always find the tidal flow is against you in a narrowboat.  You need to wait for the rising tide to get high enough to make the Ribble and the Douglas deep enough to navigate.  There is less than a foot of water at Tarleton Lock at low tide.

 

Fresh on the rivers is rarely a concern.  The tidal range at the mouth of the Ribble is 8m/26ft on springs, so an extra foot of water coming downstream is nearly irrelevant ... in fact it can make the crossing easier!

[Steve Manc]

Thanks for the replies, I should have added info when I posted which you get when making the booking. UP is north & DOWN is south.

 

Info in the skipper guide: anchor, chain and rope a minimum of 30 meters. Which is roughly two lengths of my 50 foot boat. As recommended by Iain anchor to be lowered in and then play out the chain and line.

 

Please ensure you are at the meeting points:

• UP Passage - Lock 8 Tarleton Lock, Rufford Branch where you must arrive 2 hours before high tide to ensure your safe passage on the day

• DOWN Passage - Ribble Link Basin, Top of Lock flight where you must arrive 4 - 4.5 hours before high tide to ensure your safe pasasge on the day

•  

• Skippers guide: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/30529-ribble-link-skippers-guide.pdf 

• Tide times and depths here, sorry I had info and hadn't taken it in https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/39486-ribble-link-passage-times-2019.pdf?v=6c0de1

Edited March 9, 2019 by Steve Manc
add tides and depth

[Steve Manc]

Anchor chain & Rope

 

To comply with the River Thames, if I ever get there,  I have decided to purchase 5 meters of chain and 25 meters of rope.

 

What rope do you recommend for an anchor? i.e. 10mm, 12mm or larger  https://www.ropelocker.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=13_17&products_id=474

 

Is there types of rope that sink or float?  I am sure I have read this some where!

 

Thanks

[LadyG]

Larger.

https://jimmygreen.com/content/70-anchor-rode-size-guide

 

Read the narrative.

 

read all the posts on here about anchoring, particularly post #4

 

Imho, you would be best to get your chain spliced to your chain, and ask the company to permanently attach the anchor with the strongest bow shackle practicable, and secured with monel. Keep it in a dry place

Bear in mind that you are not going to be anchoring in hurricane conditions, but even if you only need it to comply with Regulations, it might, one day, be called on to save your vessel, so I suggest you pay a little more for very much better ground tackle than the minimum required.

Jimmy Green often have "chain ends", cost effective, you may find 6m of 10mm chain available. They offer splicing service.

They are not going to advise something like this

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Boatworld-3-5kg-Danforth-Anchor-Kit-for-Sports-Boats-RIBs-2mts-chain-8mm-rope/292003735009?hash=item43fcc765e1:g:jegAAOSw9GhYf59S&frcectupt=true

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by LadyG

[rasputin]

I used to have a Danforth on my 26 foot catamaran,. It got so stuck I couldn't retrieve it, had to cut it free, still at the bottom of the sea.

[LadyG]

The point is, not how easy it is to retrieve, but how likely is it to set first time. That is the acid test.

I saw mention of 6mm chain, that's just ridiculous for a narrowboat, even 8mm is pretty risky ............. it might be  OK in ideal conditions, chances are, you won't deploy it in ideal conditions.

Edited March 11, 2019 by LadyG

[howardang]

On 09/03/2019 at 09:13, Steve Manc said:

Thanks for the replies, I should have added info when I posted which you get when making the booking. UP is north & DOWN is south.

 

Info in the skipper guide: anchor, chain and rope a minimum of 30 meters. Which is roughly two lengths of my 50 foot boat. As recommended by Iain anchor to be lowered in and then play out the chain and line.

 

Please ensure you are at the meeting points:

• UP Passage - Lock 8 Tarleton Lock, Rufford Branch where you must arrive 2 hours before high tide to ensure your safe passage on the day

• DOWN Passage - Ribble Link Basin, Top of Lock flight where you must arrive 4 - 4.5 hours before high tide to ensure your safe pasasge on the day

•  

• Skippers guide: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/30529-ribble-link-skippers-guide.pdf 

• Tide times and depths here, sorry I had info and hadn't taken it in https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/39486-ribble-link-passage-times-2019.pdf?v=6c0de1

To add to the comment about lowering the anchor, the aim is to try to have it under control so that it doesn't take charge, and that, of course, means that you will have to consider your layout and think out some way of lowering it (incidentally, the more usual term is to Pay it out) so that you can control it. One turn around your securing point is one way of giving you control, holding the inboard part of the rope to pay out,  but make sure that your fingers are kept clear of being trapped. It is also better not to wear gloves, to avoid the fabric getting caught up and taking your fingers etc with it.

 

This emphasises the need to practise before hand so you won't be taken by surprise, and it will be much less scary when you do it for real. 

 

Howard

[Sea Dog]

1 hour ago, howardang said:

To add to the comment about lowering the anchor, the aim is to try to have it under control so that it doesn't take charge, and that, of course, means that you will have to consider your layout and think out some way of lowering it (incidentally, the more usual term is to Pay it out) so that you can control it. One turn around your securing point is one way of giving you control, holding the inboard part of the rope to pay out,  but make sure that your fingers are kept clear of being trapped. It is also better not to wear gloves, to avoid the fabric getting caught up and taking your fingers etc with it.

 

This emphasises the need to practise before hand so you won't be taken by surprise, and it will be much less scary when you do it for real. 

 

Howard

Good luck with that on a narrowboat with no provision for an anchor! 

[howardang]

48 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Good luck with that on a narrowboat with no provision for an anchor! 

 

The post I was commenting on specifically spoke about lowering an anchor. My comments are suggestions about how to do it. If someone is daft enough to try to anchor a boat with no provision to secure theanchor then there is no hope for them!

 

Howard