London Boaters - Government Review

[matty40s]

1 hour ago, magictime said:

Not being funny Dave, but is it not overstating things a bit to suggest the IWA proposal would 'rule out' commuting? It'd only be an annual requirement after all - you could stay within an hour of work 50 weeks of the year and still hit the target by doing a holiday cruise or two a bit further afield. This is pretty much what we've done in the past - 90% of the time the boat's stayed in West/North Yorkshire, but once or twice a year we've headed off to do the Four Counties or something.

The IWA think that continuous cruising should only be available to those people who have retired and are going to do most of the system every Summer and return their boats to a marina so CRT can close the system down each Winter to repair it ready for next year.

I have yet to find a senior IWA representative who thinks otherwise.

Edited June 12, 2018 by matty40s

[nicknorman]

4 hours ago, Dave_P said:

Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word 'plenty'.  But the liveaboards that were about were not required to move to the extent that they are now.  Or in any case, they weren't being enforced against in the same way.  I know someone who lived on the Regents Canal in the 80s, right by the zoo and, as far as I know, didn't move for years.

 

Yes I think that is absolutely right. But not surprising. When there is the odd one or two “pisstakers” it doesn’t really matter, nobody notices. But when those numbers massively proliferate it becomes a problem with popular mooring areas permanently clogged up with static live-aboards. That’s when enforcement is ramped up and causes “issues” nor only for the long term pisstakers but also for some folk committing minor misdemeanours but caught in the crossfire.

[ditchcrawler]

On 11/06/2018 at 16:48, mrsmelly said:

Ive done more than that since march already this year. I think the word continuous is the clue. Though we do stop to sleep. I know many many liveaboards and the VAST majority of them are members of non of the clubs such as the bargee thingy or the RBOA or nabo etc etc.

I did 444 miles last trip, 8 weeks

[Graham Davis]

7 hours ago, Dave_P said:

The cruising range suggested by the IWA is 100 miles.  I work in Oldbury, West Midlands.  To exceed the minimum range, I would need to go as far as Macclesfield in the North, Northhampton in the East, Sharpness in the South and Llangollen in the West.  This effectively rules out any chance of commuting to a specific place of work, which, I suspect, is the whole point.  I'd also wager that the majority of IWA members are retired.

 

When I'm away from my mooring for a length of time, my cruising range is around 50 miles, Worcester, Stratford, Tamworth, Stafford, Gnosall etc.

 

This keeps my commuting time to around 1 hour, which is reasonable for me.

I'm trying, and failing, to understand why you think those named places would be required to be visited to fall in line with the 100 mile figure. It certainly isn't the way I read their suggestion.

[Alan de Enfield]

We are planning on a pretty long trip next week, 520 miles (Hull to Plymouth) 24 hours per day 4 on 4 off shifts with 3 on board. Should do it in 5 days (may even take a day off half-way to break it up).

 

http://ports.com/sea-route/#/?a=3067&b=155&c=Port of Hull, United Kingdom&d=Port of Plymouth, United Kingdom

 

 

[mrsmelly]

24 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I did 444 miles last trip, 8 weeks

We have never counted to be honest. Suffice to say its several hundred miles when we arent working. This summer we intend to do Burton on trent down to Brentford across to Bristol then back up the middle to York and Leeds before deciding where we want to be for the winter? To be honest when working we nearly always had a mooring as its more hassle and more expensive ccing than getting a mooring. We have always avoided working anywhere near London like the plague so a mooring has always been available.

[matty40s]

53 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

I'm trying, and failing, to understand why you think those named places would be required to be visited to fall in line with the 100 mile figure. It certainly isn't the way I read their suggestion.

Because the IWA and what their senior folk want is completely askwiff of what normal people think. I have had dealings with a senior IWA bod over the last 4 weeks and he is on a different planet and era to most of us.

[Detling]

Most of the problem of London and the K & A could be solved by 40 or so camera monitored mooring for 48 hours only one visit per year. this would allow boats who are genuinely cruising to traverse the areas without the fear of not being able to find a mooring. Special arrangements could be made to allow hire boats to moor more frequently.

[matty40s]

12 minutes ago, Detling said:

Most of the problem of London and the K & A could be solved by 40 or so camera monitored mooring for 48 hours only one visit per year. this would allow boats who are genuinely cruising to traverse the areas without the fear of not being able to find a mooring. Special arrangements could be made to allow hire boats to moor more frequently.

...and where in any legislation or rules does that suggest is fair or law....

go on, surprise me....

 

I also suspect that the IWA would object to that given they like to moor outside their favourite pub on mooring rings on a regular basis, as they dont carry mooring pins....(why should they, feckin elite moorers)

Edited June 12, 2018 by matty40s

[Paul C]

6 minutes ago, Detling said:

Most of the problem of London and the K & A could be solved by 40 or so camera monitored mooring for 48 hours only one visit per year. this would allow boats who are genuinely cruising to traverse the areas without the fear of not being able to find a mooring. Special arrangements could be made to allow hire boats to moor more frequently.

But thats the problem (partly) - solutions such as the above, or variations thereof, aren't legally enforceable because there is no regionality to the mooring time limits; and there is no generic time limit anyway. The "14 day rule" is only applicable to CCers and it has a "reasonable under the circumstances..." tag on it anyway, there is no such rule (in the legislation) for home moorers. And the 14 days mentioned in the T&Cs (and shorter time limits where signed) are just that - in the T&Cs which isn't enforceable in law (yet).

 

Combine this with the weak penalty for non-display of the licence plate and it becomes difficult and cumbersome to actually enforce properly at all.

 

Now since the problems are mainly regional, there is a good argument to make the reach of any new (primary) legislation have a regional focus too. Quite how this is done (for example by empowering councils to set their own rules on canals; or to define in law regions; or to empower CRT to define areas it wants to enforce tighter etc) is anther matter altogether.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Sir Nibble said:

So what is so special about London? Something in the air? Are Londoners special commercial supermen? Or is it that London is subsidised by care and control of just about every marketable and cultural asset the nation possesses?

 

Perhaps all those buildings built hundreds of years ago that tourists flock to should be relocated brick by brick to other parts of the country then!

[Detling]

didn't say fair but then the current situation doesn't work for many people or businesses. traders tend not to pass through London preferring to go places where towpath mooring is possible, the hire fleet in London closed down, one reason being their hirers had difficulty finding moorings, there were other problems to. Life in general isn't fair but if you make steps to allow wider access then it should reduce the criticism.

[matty40s]

2 minutes ago, welly said:

 

Perhaps all those buildings built hundreds of years ago that tourists flock to should be relocated brick by brick to other parts of the country then!

https://www.thedungeons.com/blackpool/

Theyve already got the London Dungeons in Blackpool, only 15 miles from the Lancaster Canal, perhaps move the Tower to Milton Keynes inside a couple of roundabouts and Leicester Square to ....Leicester.

[RLWP]

4 minutes ago, matty40s said:

https://www.thedungeons.com/blackpool/

Theyve already got the London Dungeons in Blackpool, only 15 miles from the Lancaster Canal, perhaps move the Tower to Milton Keynes inside a couple of roundabouts and Leicester Square to ....Leicester.

You're on to something. Liverpool street to Liverpool. Oxford street to Oxford. Cheapside to Tipton

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, matty40s said:

https://www.thedungeons.com/blackpool/

Theyve already got the London Dungeons in Blackpool, only 15 miles from the Lancaster Canal, perhaps move the Tower to Milton Keynes inside a couple of roundabouts and Leicester Square to ....Leicester.

I think that sounds like a foolproof plan! Any building named after a different part of the country should be moved to its place of origin. Leeds Castle in Maidstone can go back up to Leeds and Maidstone Castle in Leeds can go back down south.

[Graham Davis]

36 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Because the IWA and what their senior folk want is completely askwiff of what normal people think. I have had dealings with a senior IWA bod over the last 4 weeks and he is on a different planet and era to most of us.

And your comment bears no relationship to the question I wanted an answer to.

[MtB]

3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I did 444 miles last trip, 8 weeks

 

And no job, obviously.

[Iain_S]

10 hours ago, Dave_P said:

What's special about London is that it is a major global finance and commercial hub.  Without it the UK would be poorer overall.  I'd agree that the wealth created by London should be equitably distributed around the country though.

Wealth created, or wealth gathered?? 

[Tuscan]

Due to the recent increase in boat related crime in central London I’m told there is space in previously overcrowded places like Victoria Park so maybe the peak has passed.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Iain_S said:

Wealth created, or wealth gathered?? 

Probably a bit of both but given it's the financial hub of Europe, probably mostly created. I feel like there's some anti-London bias in your question.

2 hours ago, Tuscan said:

Due to the recent increase in boat related crime in central London I’m told there is space in previously overcrowded places like Victoria Park so maybe the peak has passed.

Much quieter than it has been in previous months. The stretch between Mile End and the bottom of Old Ford Lock, which was usually boat after boat was literally empty when I passed it last. As was the stretch between King's Cross basin and the Islington tunnel. Haven't seen anything like that in a long time.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, welly said:

Probably a bit of both but given it's the financial hub of Europe, probably mostly created. I feel like there's some anti-London bias in your question.

London is a beast all of its own. It moves at 1000 miles per hour, as does everyone who lives there, in the rush to make the tube to work (there's one every two minutes - why are you sprinting?).

Perhaps it's not much of a surprise, then, to find that recent graduates have been running away from this monster, with the net number moving to London nearly ten times lower than it was in the 1990s.

Instead, millennials are sticking to the familiar comforts of their hometowns, with the proportion of under-35s moving regions and changing jobs having fallen by 20 per cent since 2001.

 

The streets are not paved with gold

Many graduates are sold the idea that because London is the home of multi-nationals and big business they will be earning significantly more by moving to the big smoke. However, on the graduate salaries league table, London sits in third place, with the average starting salary nearly £4,000 less than top placed Liverpool.

Unless you've sold your soul to the banking sector - sorry bankers, but you can wipe those tears away with all those £50 notes in your wallet - then you will be counting the pennies as a twenty-something in the city.

 

Even if you do earn a healthy wage, it gets spent quickly

This leads me onto my next point. Despite being rammed full of gourmet restaurants and haute couture, all tempting you to spend your hard earned dosh, everything is at a premium. Your heady days of £3 triples are over. In London you'd be lucky to find a small glass of wine under a fiver.

 

You can still basically only afford a student flat

The golden rule is that you shouldn't be spending more than 30 per cent of your household income on rent. With the average graduate in London earning £30,000 (a figure skewed by City trainee schemes) and the average rent on a one-bed flat being £15,168 per year, you don't need to have a maths degree to see the sums don't add up.

More than likely, you'll be house-sharing into your early 30s, something you thought you'd waved goodbye to along with fancy dress nights at the student union. Also, give up any hope of owning your own home - unless you want to live off crackers for a year. 

 

Deals are your best friend

Scrimping and saving is now your life. If you don't keep your eye out for deals, you'll be over your overdraft limit, or stuck watching Netflix at home (at which point you may as well not be in London at all). 

Everyone outside London lives for the weekend, whereas in London you live for that once-every-solar-eclipse '50 per cent off' voucher at Franco Manca, so keep your eye out for offers in Time Out. Hook your 18-25 student railcard up to your Oyster card. Sign up for the under-25 discounts at the cinema and shows at The Barbican. Go to free art gallery openings and stock up on nibbles. Anything, anything to keep the costs of living down in this penny pinching town

 

You become anonymous

Everywhere in London is painfully busy all the time (the pain is coming from those elbows shoving you out the way to get that free Franco Manca pizza). You can easily get lost in a city in a city of 10 million people, nearly five times the size of the second most populous UK city, Birmingham.

Choose where you live wisely. London is made up of tribes, except for the centre which is full of tourists, who come and go as they please. The areas around central London are their own little communities, where it is far easier to get to know people. Brixton, Dalston, Clapham - take your pick - all have happening vibes while being affordable on the millennial purse.

 

Think of the transport

Get yourself on the right tube line. Like the different areas of London that they all connect, the tube lines on the London underground are their own little ecosystem with their little nuances that you have to be aware of.

The Northern bisects the city, but painfully slowly and with its own peculiar odour. The Victoria line is quick, with a train every 100 seconds, whereas the Central line is always late. We now have the Night Tube, which is great, but bear in mind that buses are a good late night option too.

The average Londoner spends £118 on travel, but with all the mayhem that can ensue on public transport it may just be easier to walk. You could live in Archway and walk to Angel in 45 minutes, saving on those all-important coppers.

 

You'll be worked to the bone

Earlier this year, the Office for National Statistics found that Londoners work on average two hours longer a week, which might not sound much but amounts to three weeks a year.

Get set to toil until 7pm, which after a tube ride means you're not getting home till 8pm, which means you're not having dinner till 9pm, which means you might just make it to the sofa by the time the 10 O'Clock News is on. By which time you've fallen asleep, drooling in a half-comatose slumber. It really does put a whole new spin on the saying, 'if you're tired of London, you're tired of life'.

 

[nicknorman]

24 minutes ago, welly said:

Probably a bit of both but given it's the financial hub of Europe, probably mostly created. I feel like there's some anti-London bias in your question.

Much quieter than it has been in previous months. The stretch between Mile End and the bottom of Old Ford Lock, which was usually boat after boat was literally empty when I passed it last. As was the stretch between King's Cross basin and the Islington tunnel. Haven't seen anything like that in a long time.

No I think you miss the point. Financial services don’t create wealth, they gather wealth created by other people’s work and take a cut from it. You can’t eat or drive or live in “financial services” - it’s just a feature of our capitalist system that allows people to get rich off other people’s hard work and money. Quite similar to the feudal system really!

[Mike Todd]

20 hours ago, WotEver said:

Yes, while CaRT’s guidance remains ‘20 miles’. That could change however, but probably not easily without re-worded legislation. 

But there is often confusion between travelling a total of 20 miles and cruising at least a 20 mile range.

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

But there is often confusion between travelling a total of 20 miles and cruising at least a 20 mile range.

As I tried to explain in Post #11 (page 1) of this thread.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

London is a beast all of its own. It moves at 1000 miles per hour, as does everyone who lives there, in the rush to make the tube to work (there's one every two minutes - why are you sprinting?).

Perhaps it's not much of a surprise, then, to find that recent graduates have been running away from this monster, with the net number moving to London nearly ten times lower than it was in the 1990s.

Instead, millennials are sticking to the familiar comforts of their hometowns, with the proportion of under-35s moving regions and changing jobs having fallen by 20 per cent since 2001.

 

The streets are not paved with gold

Many graduates are sold the idea that because London is the home of multi-nationals and big business they will be earning significantly more by moving to the big smoke. However, on the graduate salaries league table, London sits in third place, with the average starting salary nearly £4,000 less than top placed Liverpool.

Unless you've sold your soul to the banking sector - sorry bankers, but you can wipe those tears away with all those £50 notes in your wallet - then you will be counting the pennies as a twenty-something in the city.

 

Even if you do earn a healthy wage, it gets spent quickly

This leads me onto my next point. Despite being rammed full of gourmet restaurants and haute couture, all tempting you to spend your hard earned dosh, everything is at a premium. Your heady days of £3 triples are over. In London you'd be lucky to find a small glass of wine under a fiver.

 

You can still basically only afford a student flat

The golden rule is that you shouldn't be spending more than 30 per cent of your household income on rent. With the average graduate in London earning £30,000 (a figure skewed by City trainee schemes) and the average rent on a one-bed flat being £15,168 per year, you don't need to have a maths degree to see the sums don't add up.

More than likely, you'll be house-sharing into your early 30s, something you thought you'd waved goodbye to along with fancy dress nights at the student union. Also, give up any hope of owning your own home - unless you want to live off crackers for a year. 

 

Deals are your best friend

Scrimping and saving is now your life. If you don't keep your eye out for deals, you'll be over your overdraft limit, or stuck watching Netflix at home (at which point you may as well not be in London at all). 

Everyone outside London lives for the weekend, whereas in London you live for that once-every-solar-eclipse '50 per cent off' voucher at Franco Manca, so keep your eye out for offers in Time Out. Hook your 18-25 student railcard up to your Oyster card. Sign up for the under-25 discounts at the cinema and shows at The Barbican. Go to free art gallery openings and stock up on nibbles. Anything, anything to keep the costs of living down in this penny pinching town

 

You become anonymous

Everywhere in London is painfully busy all the time (the pain is coming from those elbows shoving you out the way to get that free Franco Manca pizza). You can easily get lost in a city in a city of 10 million people, nearly five times the size of the second most populous UK city, Birmingham.

Choose where you live wisely. London is made up of tribes, except for the centre which is full of tourists, who come and go as they please. The areas around central London are their own little communities, where it is far easier to get to know people. Brixton, Dalston, Clapham - take your pick - all have happening vibes while being affordable on the millennial purse.

 

Think of the transport

Get yourself on the right tube line. Like the different areas of London that they all connect, the tube lines on the London underground are their own little ecosystem with their little nuances that you have to be aware of.

The Northern bisects the city, but painfully slowly and with its own peculiar odour. The Victoria line is quick, with a train every 100 seconds, whereas the Central line is always late. We now have the Night Tube, which is great, but bear in mind that buses are a good late night option too.

The average Londoner spends £118 on travel, but with all the mayhem that can ensue on public transport it may just be easier to walk. You could live in Archway and walk to Angel in 45 minutes, saving on those all-important coppers.

 

You'll be worked to the bone

Earlier this year, the Office for National Statistics found that Londoners work on average two hours longer a week, which might not sound much but amounts to three weeks a year.

Get set to toil until 7pm, which after a tube ride means you're not getting home till 8pm, which means you're not having dinner till 9pm, which means you might just make it to the sofa by the time the 10 O'Clock News is on. By which time you've fallen asleep, drooling in a half-comatose slumber. It really does put a whole new spin on the saying, 'if you're tired of London, you're tired of life'.

 

Cor. I'm glad I'm not one of the people described in that story. That doesn't reflect this particular London resident whatsoever.