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Parahandy

Overreaction ? ( Did I Have A Choice )

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2 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

 

I didn't have to read any books about Police brutality in the sixties and seventies in London.  I was there, working with young People, and often being mistreated by the Police myself  for doing that.

Yes there will have been some bad Police, there are today, just as there were bad people working with and abusing children in the sixties and seventies and still today. They were however then as now in the minority thankfully. 

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31 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Yes there will have been some bad Police, there are today, just as there were bad people working with and abusing children in the sixties and seventies and still today. They were however then as now in the minority thankfully. 

There were more than just a few, the SUS law gave them authorization to stop anyone they had a predjudice about. I worked at a Youth Centre in Uxbridge and was usually driving home about 11.30 pm. I was routinely stopped and questioned, and their basis was that any young adult with long hair driving a big vehicle at that time of night, was likely to have been involved in a crime. I was a proffessional worker, employed by the Local Authority, and they knew that, but it didn't stop them harassing me.

 

In more recent years my experience of the Police was far more positive, although there was still a disturbing undertone of predjudice amongst some of those I worked with.

Edited by David Schweizer

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8 hours ago, Sir Nibble said:

On the Subject of police designations, is there something about police officers that makes them incapable of using the word "man"?

In the ""olden days" officers in the policeforce were Inspector rank and above. I suppose it showed that they had reached a level of experience and knowledgability that warranted the term " officer" At the same time, like all policemen, they were "Officers of the Law" and so I can see where the term has crept in to become a universal name. As an old fuddy duddy, it still sounds slightly odd to me, however, but maybe I should move with the times.

 

Howard

 

 

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2 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

There were more than just a few, the SUS law gave them authorization to stop anyone they had a predjudice about. I worked at a Youth Centre in Uxbridge and was usually driving home about 11.30 pm. I was routinely stopped and questioned, and their basis was that any young adult with long hair driving a big vehicle at that time of night, was likely to have been involved in a crime. I was a proffessional worker, employed by the Local Authority, and they knew that, but it didn't stop them harassing me.

 

In more recent years my experience of the Police was far more positive, although there was still a disturbing undertone of predjudice amongst some of those I worked with.

Thats simply your opinion that they had a prejudice , we hear the same sort of rhetoric about the use of Stop and Search in London amongst Young Black Males from People like Dianne Abbot , interesting of course that Sadique Khan has increased their use , because they work .

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6 hours ago, Parahandy said:

Thats simply your opinion that they had a prejudice , we hear the same sort of rhetoric about the use of Stop and Search in London amongst Young Black Males from People like Dianne Abbot , interesting of course that Sadique Khan has increased their use , because they work .

No it's not just David's opinion. I believe the Met (And other forces) have been found to be instutionaly racist in the past. It's pretty comprehensively  documented if you care to do some proper research.

 

There is also the opinion that little has actually changed since Stephen Lawrence was killed and they still are. Our local force has been similarly criticised too.

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6 hours ago, Parahandy said:

Thats simply your opinion that they had a prejudice , we hear the same sort of rhetoric about the use of Stop and Search in London amongst Young Black Males from People like Dianne Abbot , interesting of course that Sadique Khan has increased their use , because they work .

 

I deliberatly avoided any reference to race. The predjudice I and my friends experienced was against young white males, and being basicly law abiding, none of us was ever warned or aprehended. They just did it because they could.

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9 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

There were more than just a few, the SUS law gave them authorization to stop anyone they had a predjudice about. I worked at a Youth Centre in Uxbridge and was usually driving home about 11.30 pm. I was routinely stopped and questioned, and their basis was that any young adult with long hair driving a big vehicle at that time of night, was likely to have been involved in a crime. I was a proffessional worker, employed by the Local Authority, and they knew that, but it didn't stop them harassing me.

 

In more recent years my experience of the Police was far more positive, although there was still a disturbing undertone of predjudice amongst some of those I worked with.

Ok lets explore it a little further. I worked in west Yorkshire in the late 70s and early 80s when the biggest murder hunt in the UK was under way. One thing we did in every area is on a sunday evening put road blocks up stopping cars to question them, we had pro formas with set questions amongst others. We were told that we could only stop and question single white drivers no one else so we never stopped and questioned any black people or any couples or any single women so did that prove we were all predjudice against single ( sometimes long haired ) men? NO it doesnt we were looking for a specific male so targeted specific people, we were even told due to seriously bad management issues that we could only take note of men with a geordie accent!! 

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20 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

 

I deliberatly avoided any reference to race. The predjudice I and my friends experienced was against young white males, and being basicly law abiding, none of us was ever warned or aprehended. They just did it because they could.

Exactly my experience in the late 60s early 70s.

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On 09/06/2018 at 18:58, Kev's Halcyon said:

Before I retired from teaching, I had both a black board and a white board in my room. I was told by management that I should refer to the black board as a chalk board, I asked what I should refer to the white board as. For some reason, I wasn't given a credible answer!!

It comes to something when 'black' cannot be used as an accurate descriptor of an inanimate object of that colour. The trouble is that many people seem unable or unwilling to underrstand what is racist, irrelevant or offensive, and what is not. It is the ignorance that needs correcting, not the words. 

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12 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Out of the mouth of babes. You were a baby then and you should know better than believing crap you have read in books. I was there as an adult with enough bottle to wear two uniforms for seventeen years in the seventies and eighties protecting soft lads that can talk the talk but not walk the walk. It was a great era of change and no one I knew routinely or otherwise beat any blacks or assaulted women. Please stick to what you know and understand.

White 70’s copper not understanding privilege shocker. 

 

My favourite part of this is the bit where you denounce ‘books’ as some kind of universal conspiracy! Just brilliant! 

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30 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

 

I deliberatly avoided any reference to race. The predjudice I and my friends experienced was against young white males, and being basicly law abiding, none of us was ever warned or aprehended. They just did it because they could.

Same as now, but IC3 males are statistically much more likely to get stopped.

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2 minutes ago, Wanted said:

White 70’s copper not understanding privilege shocker. 

 

My favourite part of this is the bit where you denounce ‘books’ as some kind of universal conspiracy! Just brilliant! 

We could go on like this for ever, you with your pinkie leftie pacifism ideals and me with the reality of what life was like then and indeed is now. Go ahead knock yourself out. I have no time for tennis when the sun is out and its boating time for the priveliged.

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23 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

We could go on like this for ever, you with your pinkie leftie pacifism ideals and me with the reality of what life was like then and indeed is now. Go ahead knock yourself out. I have no time for tennis when the sun is out and its boating time for the priveliged.

 

        image.png.de2e1a4700bf67e595947c96e64f002a.png

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58 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Ok lets explore it a little further. I worked in west Yorkshire in the late 70s and early 80s when the biggest murder hunt in the UK was under way. One thing we did in every area is on a sunday evening put road blocks up stopping cars to question them, we had pro formas with set questions amongst others. We were told that we could only stop and question single white drivers no one else so we never stopped and questioned any black people or any couples or any single women so did that prove we were all predjudice against single ( sometimes long haired ) men? NO it doesnt we were looking for a specific male so targeted specific people, we were even told due to seriously bad management issues that we could only take note of men with a geordie accent!!

There we go, specific white male. What's wrong with the word "man"? White male could be a tomcat or a moth. The correct word for an adult male human is man. What's so complicated?

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Just now, Sir Nibble said:

There we go, specific white male. What's wrong with the word "man"? White male could be a tomcat or a moth. The correct word for an adult male human is man. What's so complicated?

Isn't the point though that if you are looking for a white suspect there is little point saying 'look out for a black man' and vice versa??

 

Or am I missing something.

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1 minute ago, MJG said:

Isn't the point though that if you are looking for a white suspect there is little point saying 'look out for a black man' and vice versa??

 

Or am I missing something.

You are missing something. We all use the word "man" coppers don't, they can't pronounce it. "The male was seen leaving the premises and challenged wherapon the male ran off down an alley".

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3 minutes ago, Sir Nibble said:

You are missing something. We all use the word "man" coppers don't, they can't pronounce it. "The male was seen leaving the premises and challenged wherapon the male ran off down an alley".

Well they use 'female' rather than 'woman' too, so they are at least being consistent.

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1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

We could go on like this for ever, you with your pinkie leftie pacifism ideals and me with the reality of what life was like then and indeed is now. 

Can you not imagine that Wanted's pinkie leftie pacifism ideals have been shaped by his experience and reality just as you claim your jack-booted righty prejudices are shaped by yours?

 

My reality in the 70s and early 80s is significantly different to yours (and probably equally different to Wanted's)

 

I guess I come from a more confrontational hob nailed lefty trade union background than Wanted so I'm no pacifist (and true red rather than pinkie) but I'd rather wear sandals and knit yoghurt than wear jack boots and produce bile.

Edited by carlt
Removal of a shocking double negative.
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3 minutes ago, carlt said:

Can you not imagine that Wanted's pinkie leftie pacifism ideals are not shaped by his experience and reality just as you claim your jack-booted righty prejudices are shaped by yours?

 

My reality in the 70s and early 80s is significantly different to yours (and probably equally different to Wanted's)

 

I guess I come from a more confrontational hob nailed lefty trade union background than Wanted so I'm no pacifist (and true red rather than pinkie) but I'd rather wear sandals and knit yoghurt than wear jack boots and produce bile.

A good and reasoned post. Oddly enough my Dad was a staunch trade union man and for many years a shop steward, perhaps thats partly why I am different. You cant pigeon hole anyone though because even though Dad was a shop steward he never advocated striking always stating it was counter productive and absolutely  always he voted conservative.

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7 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

You cant pigeon hole anyone though...

 

Indeed.

My best mate back in the late 70s/early 80s was one of the very few black lads in our area and was repeatedly beaten up by the local BNP skins.

 

The police were about 50:50 either sympathetic towards him or blaming him for being "different" but no legal action was ever taken against his attackers.

 

One local copper however took him under his wing and subtly altered his regular beat to be at the school gates each afternoon and shadow us home.

 

My mate is now a police officer (information I got from Facebook, you'll be pleased to know).

 

 

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