Braunston Historic Boat Rally 2018

[alan_fincher]

51 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Only if the springer is ex commercial . Dont remember many springer hire boats bridgewater boats maybe

Doesn't Chas Hadern still operate at least one Springer, (or maybe Springer look-alike), in his hire fleet?

 

Two different hire boat companies that used to operate from Berkhamsted & both had Springers on the fleet, and there were certainly others in a hire fleet at Godalming in the 1970s.

 

Only recently some of the ETRR long term hire boats are (or at least were) Springers.

[roland elsdon]

If you simply say historic you have to have a cutoff date. Its a funny thing when i bought my first historic in 1982 i thought it was old. It was 23  years older than me. My father said thats not old its 20 years younger than i am !

[X Alan W]

Looking at the video of "Star" at the rally noticed from the overhead from the bridge it has a slide on both sides over the engine "ole" doors from memory most had only one slide was this as original or is it artistic license so to speak on a rebuilt cabin his side cloth strings were tied in a somewhat unusual configuration Just curios

[alan_fincher]

14 minutes ago, X Alan W said:

Looking at the video of "Star" at the rally noticed from the overhead from the bridge it has a slide on both sides over the engine "ole" doors from memory most had only one slide was this as original or is it artistic license so to speak on a rebuilt cabin his side cloth strings were tied in a somewhat unusual configuration Just curios

I don't know the history of individual boats, but looking at the video of Aquila, for instance, that also sports two slides.

 

However, I recall that when we viewed Planet it had just the one.

 

Might some of the boats changed when the water cooled engines came out and were replaced by air cooled ones?  I'm really not sure!

[Derek R.]

TYCHO certainly had two slides until the Petter was installed, then the semi-circular cut-away was filled, the ridges the slide ran on were cut, and overplated for the air outlet.

 

 

[Peter X]

I don't know if this helps, but Nuneaton has a slide on each side over the engine hole doors. The engine is a water cooled Lister from the 1950s, but I'm not sure at what point that replaced the original engine. Others in the NBT who are more clued up than me about the history could tell you.

[zenataomm]

Definition of Historic

 

historic

[hɪˈstɒrɪk]

 

ADJECTIVE

1. famous or important in history, or potentially so.

   "the area's numerous historic sites" ·

   [More]

   synonyms: famous · famed · important · significant · notable · celebrated ·

   [More]

   • archaic
     of or concerning history; of the past.
     "eruptions in historic times"
     synonyms: old style · former · past · bygone · historic · heritage · antique ·

     [More]
2. grammar

   (of a tense) used in the narration of past events, especially Latin and Greek imperfect and pluperfect.

    

    

   Which would suggest that my 1969 ex hire boat is historic.  Not because of its age nor because it earned its keep as a hire boat.

   It's historic because it's the boat on which a meeting took place that decided who would be the first men on the moon later that year.

   Also, The Beatles' last public performance, on the roof of my boat was televised to the world.

   It was on my boat the plans were finalised for Woodstock that attracted more than 350,000 rock-n-roll fans.

    

   All true ….. probably ?

    

[pete harrison]

4 hours ago, X Alan W said:

Looking at the video of "Star" at the rally noticed from the overhead from the bridge it has a slide on both sides over the engine "ole" doors from memory most had only one slide was this as original or is it artistic license so to speak on a rebuilt cabin his side cloth strings were tied in a somewhat unusual configuration Just curios

All new built G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. motors had two slides on the engine room top, and as far as I am aware all F.M.C. Ltd. motors had a single slide on the engine room top on the same side as the cabin chimney - but had doors on both sides of the engine room.

 

All of these boats have had chequered history's and often multiple engine changes, resulting in engine room tops being changed to suit - for example my boat has no engine room slides and has reduced height doors on each side. This alteration was made in about 1969 and the boat carried its last 4 loads to Croxley with this arrangement 

Edited June 28, 2018 by pete harrison

[pete harrison]

44 minutes ago, Peter X said:

I don't know if this helps, but Nuneaton has a slide on each side over the engine hole doors. The engine is a water cooled Lister from the 1950s, but I'm not sure at what point that replaced the original engine. Others in the NBT who are more clued up than me about the history could tell you.

NUNEATON was built with two slides on the engine room top, altered to one in common with most others when fitted with a Petter PD2 in about 1960 - the engine hot air ventilator being fitted in place of the slide on the cabin porthole side. NUNEATON maintained this arrangement until its Petter PD2 was removed in 2001 and a Lister HRW2 was fitted, the Lister being of 1975 vintage (not 1950's !). The wooden back cabin was also replaced with the current welded steel version in 2001, with all works being completed at Stockton.

 

It does worry me that this quite recent aspect of NUNEATON's history is already being misrepresented by Narrow Boat Trust Ltd. members 

19 hours ago, pete harrison said:

I have just been watching YouTube video's of the weekend at Braunston and I have spotted another - the wooden tug PROGRESS, so:

 

68 attendees as 'historic' boats

4 attendees as reproductions

1 attendee former B.W.B. push tug (1974)

11 resident to Braunston

 

84 total.

 

or to appease Mr Mack:

 

67 attendees as 'historic' boats (RAYMOND not counted)

5 attendees as reproductions (RAYMOND counted)

1 attendee former B.W.B. push tug (1974)

11 resident to Braunston

 

84 total.

And another 'historic' courtesy of YouTube, PACIFIC - making 85 

[alan_fincher]

 

Yes, without thinking about it too deeply, my initial thoughts were they started off with 2 slides, irrespective of exact type.

However, whilst I'm now sure that is right, (please ignore my ramblings in my last post!), I'm not sure of reasons why ones that still have a National or RN in might have reduced to one.

A definite example of this was Planet, which we viewed in 2014, and where I think the engine room roof at the time was original, (but I believe since replaced with a replica?)

 

But I don't know the history of Planet - has it actually had a period where the engine was not a national or a RN, and maybe an air-cooled one necessitated infilling that bit of roof?

 

Edited June 28, 2018 by alan_fincher

[X Alan W]

Thanks Guys, My Josher had a single slide on the cabin chimney side when I first got it With the Seffle fitted cabin chimney side exhaust when the cabin /engine "ole"was rebuilt by Joe Gilbert at Charity dock he modded the roof to incorporate the slide on "tother" side

[pete harrison]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

Yes, without thinking about it too deeply, my initial thoughts were they started off with 2 slides, irrespective of exact type.

However, whilst I'm now sure that is right, (please ignore my ramblings in my last post!), I'm not sure of reasons why ones that still have a National or RN in might have reduced to one.

A definite example of this was Planet, which we viewed in 2014, and where I think the engine room roof at the time was original, (but I believe since replaced with a replica?)

 

But I don't know the history of Planet - has it actually had a period where the engine was not a national or a RN, and maybe an air-cooled one necessitated infilling that bit of roof?

PLANET has had at least three engine types, and possibly four.

 

PLANET was built with a National and retained this type until it was replaced by a Lister HA2 or HB2 (depending on who you talk to) in about 1966 whilst being converted to a trip boat at Earlswood. Once in private ownership I think this Lister was replaced by a Lister JP2, and shortly afterwards by the National that is currently fitted.

 

There are very few boats that retain their original engine types, although several have been returned after being fitted with something else during their history 

[alan_fincher]

4 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

PLANET has had at least three engine types, and possibly four.

 

PLANET was built with a National and retained this type until it was replaced by a Lister HA2 or HB2 (depending on who you talk to) in about 1966 whilst being converted to a trip boat at Earlswood. Once in private ownership I think this Lister was replaced by a Lister JP2, and shortly afterwards by the National that is currently fitted.

 

There are very few boats that retain their original engine types, although several have been returned after being fitted with something else during their history 

So I guess Planet probably lost one of it's slides when the HA2 (or HB2) went in.

[David Mack]

7 hours ago, X Alan W said:

Looking at the video of "Star" at the rally noticed from the overhead from the bridge it has a slide on both sides over the engine "ole" doors from memory most had only one slide was this as original or is it artistic license so to speak on a rebuilt cabin his side cloth strings were tied in a somewhat unusual configuration Just curios

 

The whole of Star's back cabin, engine room and cabin extension is fairly modern welded steel, so not necessarily a faithful copy of the original. Same as the bow which is in the process of being replaced with something more authentic.

[Liam]

A very original engine room lid showing the double slides above each set of doors.

 

As far as I know this boat has always had an RM DM2 (not sure about the same one from 1935 mind) but at some point in the past has had the exhaust relocated a couple of inches further forward.  

[mrsmelly]

Who feeds all the horses during the historic rally?

[rusty69]

7 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Who feeds all the horses during the historic rally?

Mr Oss of course!

[roland elsdon]

I believe ( though happy to be corrected ) they all stars and towns started with two slides .

Subsiquent modifications have muddied the water also many yarwoods boats have a replica wooden back cabin rather than the original riveted steel cabin. That reflects the early removal of steel cabins.

as the owner of the last built town class woolwich ( whose engine room sides and frames are about the only thing above the gunnel origional it had 2 slides...

[The Bearwood Boster]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

Mr Oss of course!

The one from 'Bonanza'?

[rusty69]

Just now, The Bearwood Boster said:

The one from 'Bonanza'?

The other one, who hasn't posted recently mross. 

[pete harrison]

58 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

I believe ( though happy to be corrected ) they all stars and towns started with two slides .

Subsiquent modifications have muddied the water also many yarwoods boats have a replica wooden back cabin rather than the original riveted steel cabin. That reflects the early removal of steel cabins.

At least two large Northwich motors have new steel cabins of a similar shape to the wooden cabin they had previously, complete with square section handrails. My boat also has a steel cabin in the shape of its 'British Waterways' wooden cabin as the steel is built over the old cabin, and when completed had square section handrails fitted - although these were replaced with Yarwood styled handrails 20 years ago 

[pete harrison]

1 hour ago, roland elsdon said:

as the owner of the last built town class woolwich ( whose engine room sides and frames are about the only thing above the gunnel origional it had 2 slides...

Bad news Mr Elsdon, FENNY is not ''the last built town class woolwich''. FENNY was delivered on 24 March 1937, along with EPSOM, FULBOURNE and GAINSBOROUGH - HAMPSTEAD was delivered on 05 April 1937 - GREENOCK on 23 April 1937 ending with HADLEY and HAWKESBURY on 19 May 1937. 

 

I will concede that FENNY was the last G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. motor to be gauged (GJ12770 - 05 April 1938) and its health registration was the last but one large Woolwich motor to be issued at Rickmansworth (Rickmansworth 192 - 16 November 1937) - but neither of these can be used as evidence that FENNY was not already in service as some boats were not gauged / health registered at all 

 

edit = My understanding is that these boats were pretty much ready for work on delivery, with some Yarwood built boats loading on the way down to London.

Edited June 28, 2018 by pete harrison

[alan_fincher]

1 hour ago, pete harrison said:

At least two large Northwich motors have new steel cabins of a similar shape to the wooden cabin they had previously, complete with square section handrails. My boat also has a steel cabin in the shape of its 'British Waterways' wooden cabin as the steel is built over the old cabin, and when completed had square section handrails fitted - although these were replaced with Yarwood styled handrails 20 years ago 

The person responsible for "Flamingo's" back cabin has actually apologised to me not long back for his efforts of many years previously.

Apparently the outer cladding of a then wooden cabin was stripped off, and a new steel one constructed retaining the oak framing and much of the cabin internals, and this ditated the resulting shape.

Even so, I personally have never seen much wrong with the shape of it - the obvious deviation from a Northwich original cabin being that no attempt was made to add rivets, (real or fake).

 

Perhaps it upsets the purists, I don't know, but my view is that they all are what they are, with whatever history that comes with whatever has been done to them over the years.

I doubt any two are even vaguely close to being the same as each other any more!

[roland elsdon]

Always good to be proved wrong... she is the youngest listed boat on the list of boats from the harland and wolff website though and some of those dates dont tie up to the above.

However regarless of that the warranty has run out, and the evidence is that in spite of having some careful owners, the uncaring ones ruled the roost...

 

[roland elsdon]

Interesting that h and w have her listed as built 11/37 and you say delivered 3/37 but not registered as dwelling til 38. Change boat? Crew shortage?.