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Grease nipple on tiller


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My tiller is stiff and squeaky! Most people just reccomend WD40. However, unlike the tiller on my old boat, this one has a grease nipple, and WD40 doesn't seem to penetrate. Grease nipples typically stop particles getting into the bearing so I'm guessing I'll need a grease gun to get anything in there? Sorry if this is a silly question but can I just remove the nipple and spray WD40 inside as a temporary measure? 

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If it has got to the stage where it is stiff and squeaky it might be worth planning for a new bearing when the boat is next out of the water. Mine got to that stage a couple of years ago and greasing only eased things for a short while as the damage to the bearing had already been done. 

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8 minutes ago, RichLech said:

If it has got to the stage where it is stiff and squeaky it might be worth planning for a new bearing when the boat is next out of the water. Mine got to that stage a couple of years ago and greasing only eased things for a short while as the damage to the bearing had already been done. 

Shouldn't be a problem changing the top bearing while the boat is afloat, just dont lift the rudder out of the cup and drop it.

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My tiller/rudder was stiff when I bought the boat in 2011. The surveyor said that i only needed to do something if i didnt like the stiffness - e.g. too loose and free can be a different problem.

 

When I lifted the boat in 2015, i filled the cup that the rudder post sits in with waterproof grease, and it has been fairly free, but not too free, since. i'll do the same when I lift again, probably next year.

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Can we have a photo of this grease nipple please? 

 

Does your rudder stock have a ball race for a top bearing then? None of my boats have. Mine all have a crude plain bearing, just a turned block of steel that drops into the top of the rudder tube in the hull. 

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1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Can we have a photo of this grease nipple please? 

 

Does your rudder stock have a ball race for a top bearing then? None of my boats have. Mine all have a crude plain bearing, just a turned block of steel that drops into the top of the rudder tube in the hull. 

Mine has and I have changed it, self aligning ball bearing mounted on top of the diesel tank

 

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Is the bearing one of the square ones with a tiltable ball race set into it?  If so, it depends on how much the rudder post is tilted.  If you can see the edge of the ball race, which has a groove in it, then greasing won't do a lot as that groove is how the grease gets distributed.  If the groove is visible, then the grease will tend to come out of it rather than go into the bearing.  I replaced mine with one that had a tiltable nylon bush in it.

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3 hours ago, dor said:

Is the bearing one of the square ones with a tiltable ball race set into it?  If so, it depends on how much the rudder post is tilted.  If you can see the edge of the ball race, which has a groove in it, then greasing won't do a lot as that groove is how the grease gets distributed.  If the groove is visible, then the grease will tend to come out of it rather than go into the bearing.  I replaced mine with one that had a tiltable nylon bush in it.

I found that about the tilt when I replaced mine but after I fitted it. I really should turn the casting through 90 degrees so the groove lines up with the nipple.

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22 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Can we have a photo of this grease nipple please? 

 

Does your rudder stock have a ball race for a top bearing then? None of my boats have. Mine all have a crude plain bearing, just a turned block of steel that drops into the top of the rudder tube in the hull. 

Haven't got a photo of mine but the usual arrangement on a Liverpool Boat I  think.

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16 minutes ago, sharpness said:

Haven't got a photo of mine but the usual arrangement on a Liverpool Boat I  think.

 

I've seen loads of Liverpool boats, in fact loads of boats with a ball race bearing in the tiller but never noticed a grease nipple on any of them. 

 

Maybe I've just not been looking properly!

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This is the weather shield on mine made from two pieces of inner tube stuck together so I could fit it round the shaft 

DSCF1448small.jpg

DSCF1449small.jpg

8 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I found that about the tilt when I replaced mine but after I fitted it. I really should turn the casting through 90 degrees so the groove lines up with the nipple.

Good thinking, there was me thinking it was waste of time being fitted

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Boats with a ball bearing in the top of the tiller (most modern boats) with a grease nipple should be greased regularly. From my previous work with railway axleboxes, the grease is not just a lubricant for the bearing (which is obvious), but also acts as a seal to keep out water and dirt, both of which are a BAD THING for ball bearings. The normal waterproof grease that you use in a stern tube is fine to use. If the tiller is stiff, don't ignore it, there is something wrong!

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On 06/06/2018 at 22:37, Richard10002 said:

My tiller/rudder was stiff when I bought the boat in 2011. The surveyor said that i only needed to do something if i didnt like the stiffness - e.g. too loose and free can be a different problem.

 

When I lifted the boat in 2015, i filled the cup that the rudder post sits in with waterproof grease, and it has been fairly free, but not too free, since. i'll do the same when I lift again, probably next year.

I would suggest that your surveyour was  talking through a hole in his hat,  he clearly had little, or no, experience of old working boats which have loose rudder bearings. We had a (very) loose bearing on Helvetia, and had no problems with steering.

 

 

Edited by David Schweizer
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21 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

I would suggest that your surveyour was  talking through a hole in his hat,  he clearly had little, or no, experience of old working boats which have loose rudder bearings. We had a (very) loose bearing on Helvetia, and had no problems with steering.

 

 

But some loose rudders shake your fillings free. Also I couldn’t live from an engineering point of view with something that is simple to rectify.

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Slightly off topic. Going down for an underwater look, the bottom rudder bearing gets no lubrication other than water and grit so they wear out.

They are usually very crude or nylon bearing. The cup type collect all the grit and stones so why are they that way up and not upside down? I re-engineered mine to a stainless steel pin welded on the skeg, a phosphor bronze top hat between that and the  stainless steel cup facing down. All carefully machined to have no slop.

No grit holding = no wear.

I believe the nylon ones swell slightly in water and still wear away.

  • Greenie 1
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1 hour ago, ianali said:

But some loose rudders shake your fillings free. Also I couldn’t live from an engineering point of view with something that is simple to rectify.

 

Not in a properly built boat. the problem these days seems to be linked to shallow draught boats with small flimsy rudders set almost vertically for easier movement (and shaking!)

 

Picture one:-  Not a very good photo, but that rudder was more than 60cm square, fabricated from 2cm thick steel and set back at about 15 degrees, there is no way that shook under normal usage. Picture two:-  Shows the loose bearing and demonstrates the steep angle of the rudder post.

 

        Rudder.jpg.9e681486ff1454478cc984ce2391b714.jpg          1711847112_Rudderbearing.JPG.fb11c9683ce7a401a66832befd360e55.JPG

Edited by David Schweizer
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On 07/06/2018 at 12:19, Poppin said:

It's a mess because someone at thee boat yard had the bright idea to lather it in k99 

15283666678102102209603.jpg

Just undo the grease nipple, squirt in a bit of WD40 (it can’t do any harm), then drop the nipple in a pot of diesel for a day or two. Then replace the nipple, and using a standard grease gun, pump waterproof grease in till some comes out the top of the bearing, and waggle the tiller while doing it.

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20 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I've seen loads of Liverpool boats, in fact loads of boats with a ball race bearing in the tiller but never noticed a grease nipple on any of them. 

 

Maybe I've just not been looking properly!

My LB has a grease nipple in the top tiller bearing. I've tried to pump some grease in there but can't get any in, presumably because what's in there can't get out? Either that or the nipple is blocked?

1 hour ago, Stilllearning said:

Just undo the grease nipple, squirt in a bit of WD40 (it can’t do any harm), then drop the nipple in a pot of diesel for a day or two. Then replace the nipple, and using a standard grease gun, pump waterproof grease in till some comes out the top of the bearing, and waggle the tiller while doing it.

OK, I'll do the same thing. My tiller isn't stiff though so I won't bother with WD40. WD is good for penetrating and loosening things, but you must re-oil or re-grease afterwards otherwise once the WD is washed away by the rain it leaves parts more vulnerable to corrosion and seizing. 

Edited by blackrose
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6 hours ago, David Schweizer said:

 

Not in a properly built boat. the problem these days seems to be linked to shallow draught boats with small flimsy rudders set almost vertically for easier movement (and shaking!)

 

 

I'm not sure if there's a correlation between shallow draughted boats and small flimsy rudders? My boat only draws 2'2" max but the rudder is quite sturdy and doesn't shake.

 

Rudder vibration can be caused by a lot of other variables, not just rudder size or how flimsy or robust it is. Shape and profile of the rudder, prop size and proximity of the rudder to the prop, will also have an effect.

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18 minutes ago, blackrose said:

My LB has a grease nipple in the top tiller bearing. I've tried to pump some grease in there but can't get any in, presumably because what's in there can't get out? Either that or the nipple is blocked?

 

May well be the rudder stock angle is such that the nipple can not get grease into the groove around the outside of the outer track. See above posts.

 

If the nipple is on the front of back of the casting try turning it through 90 degrees so the groove although at an angle to the case is central where the nipple is.

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