New batteries

[cuthound]

9 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

You try claiming on that four year warranty!

 

They will meet the claim providing you can prove failure resulted from a manufacturing defects. 

 

Proving that it was a manufacturing defect and not user abuse isn't necessarily easy though. ?

[Tony Brooks]

Especially as the distributor et al has the battery.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Tony Brooks

[Greg & Jax]

Hi guys . 

Just to tie this thread off .

I have bought 3 , 180 ah ,  exide open batteries . 

Thank you for all your input . ?

Edited June 5, 2018 by Greg & Jax

[Richard10002]

On 05/06/2018 at 14:48, Greg & Jax said:

Hi guys . 

Just to tie this thread off .

I have bought 3 , 180 ah ,  exide open batteries . 

Thank you for all your input . ?

Have you got a link? Where from, how much, and model name/number?

[Greg & Jax]

Hi . 

They are exide en1100 multifit leisure batteries 180 ah  ,  £ 139.95  each . Plus pp

Tayna batteries .

Cheers Greg 

[Richard10002]

Thanks!

[Dr Bob]

7 hours ago, Greg & Jax said:

Hi . 

They are exide en1100 multifit leisure batteries 180 ah  ,  £ 139.95  each . Plus pp

Tayna batteries .

Cheers Greg 

Keep us posted on how they perform. Maybe come back in a year and give us an estimate of remaining capacity? Good luck.

[blackrose]

I fitted a new start battery today, replacing my 12 year old 110ah hi-fase dual use leisure battery which wasn't turning over the engine anymore. They tested it in Bedford batteries and although it was showing 13.6v because I'd just taken it off charge it was only producing about 110 cold cranking amps.

 

I know you're supposed to use a start battery because they produce more cranking amps, but I bought another leisure battery on the basis that it's better able to cope with periods of non-charging than a start battery and if it has sufficient cold cranking capacity (which it does) then I don't see the downside? I suppose it's a bit more expensive, cost about £85, and perhaps the cold cranking capacity will reduce over time but I guess that's the same with a start battery too? 

 

This is what I bought. 

[Alan de Enfield]

Well it wouldn't last long as a leisure battery with only 80 cycles rating.

If you were to discharge to 50% (not untypical in a leisure battery) and then recharge to 100% that would be 0.5 cycles, so you are looking at only 160 discharge to 50% and recharge cycles.

 

That could be achieved in 160 days (or less)

 

It is not unusual for a lead acid battery to be rated at 200, 500 or more cycles so the 80 cycle is certainly at the 'cheap & nasty' bottom of the range.

 

You will be OK as a starter battery as you are unlikely to take more than 4 or 5% DOD from it so you should get 1600+ starts from it.

 

 

The above graph was constructed for a Lead acid battery, but with different scaling factors, it is typical for all cell chemistries including Lithium-ion. This is because battery life depends on the total energy throughput that the active chemicals can tolerate. Ignoring other ageing effects, the total energy throughput is fixed so that one cycle of 100% DOD is roughly equivalent to 2 cycles at 50% DOD and 10 cycles at 10% DOD and 100 cycles at 1% DOD.

Edited June 9, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[blackrose]

It was all they had that was unsealed wet lead/acid. My understanding is that since my domestics are unsealed and charged from the same charger (different output but both banks receive the same 14.8v max voltage) then I needed to have the same type of start battery. I've always been led to believe that sealed wet lead/acid should only be charged to 14.4v because if you charge them higher they'll gas and you can't replace lost electrolyte.

 

Anyway, I'll see how I get on with it and if it only lasts a few years I'll get a dedicated start battery next time.  

 

By the way, what is the typical CCA required to turn over a 55hp diesel engine? I've no idea what starter motor I have.

Edited June 9, 2018 by blackrose

[Robbo]

Deleted, read wrong.

Edited June 9, 2018 by Robbo

[WotEver]

5 hours ago, blackrose said:

By the way, what is the typical CCA required to turn over a 55hp diesel engine? I've no idea what starter motor I have.

My guess would be around 300 for a cold engine. Certainly above 200. 

[blackrose]

Ok well the battery I just bought is over 900 so it should be fine for while. He tested it in the shop and it matched the specs. 

[Tony Brooks]

13 hours ago, blackrose said:

It was all they had that was unsealed wet lead/acid. My understanding is that since my domestics are unsealed and charged from the same charger (different output but both banks receive the same 14.8v max voltage) then I needed to have the same type of start battery. I've always been led to believe that sealed wet lead/acid should only be charged to 14.4v because if you charge them higher they'll gas and you can't replace lost electrolyte.

 

Anyway, I'll see how I get on with it and if it only lasts a few years I'll get a dedicated start battery next time.  

 

By the way, what is the typical CCA required to turn over a 55hp diesel engine? I've no idea what starter motor I have.

One much advertised supplier of sealed AGMs demands about 14.7. Anyway since mny/most battery manufacturer changed to lead ca;cium plates the gassing voltage is now much higher, typically quoted as 14.8.

 

Can,t you adjust the charger. A lower voltage (say 14.4) will nt hurt a start batter but it would address your concerns.

[Greg & Jax]

Hi all .

I've reopened this thread as its now time for new batteries. 

So its 3 1/2 years since fitting the exide en1100 180 ah  batteries , they are not lasting very long these days .

After looking at dimensions I have a choice. 

 3,  abs 180 ah open deep cycle  at £540 .

3 abs 180 ah agm  leisure deep cycle sealed at £840

3  solar 200 ah open  deep cycle leisure at £670 .

I have a 60 amp pro mains charger .

And 600 w of solar and 60 amp mppt for when not on mains .

Looking for a little guidance .

Regards Greg. 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

9 minutes ago, Greg & Jax said:

Hi all .

I've reopened this thread as its now time for new batteries. 

So its 3 1/2 years since fitting the exide en1100 180 ah  batteries , they are not lasting very long these days .

After looking at dimensions I have a choice. 

 3,  abs 180 ah open deep cycle  at £540 .

3 abs 180 ah agm  leisure deep cycle sealed at £840

3  solar 200 ah open  deep cycle leisure at £670 .

I have a 60 amp pro mains charger .

And 600 w of solar and 60 amp mppt for when not on mains .

Looking for a little guidance .

Regards Greg. 

 

If you are destroying good batteries in three years, either learn how to take care of them or fit the cheapest and be prepared to change them often.

[Alan de Enfield]

I have 6 of these - very happy with them and being 'open' topped you can keep an eye of the 'water' levels and keep topped up.

 

Much cheaper than you suggested 3 x solar 200ah at £670

 

 

Exide EG2153 PROFESSIONAL 210ah 1200CCA 12v Type 625 Commercial Battery 3 Year W | eBay

 

3x £170 = £510

 

Depending on your wiring routing you may need a '624' type (rather than the 625). Same battery but different terminal postions.

 

Be aware these weigh in at around 53-55 Kgs each and are not easy to handle on your own. If you have restricted access requiring you to (say) lift them in a lying down position and slide them into place it is not easy (don't ask !)

[Tony Brooks]

27 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

If you are destroying good batteries in three years, either learn how to take care of them or fit the cheapest and be prepared to change them often.

 

I echo that. Probably sulphated to hell by long term undercharging so how do you monitor the state of charge and ensure they are fully charged at least once a week.

[Greg & Jax]

Thanks for the replies. 

I just normally fit and leave the mains charger to do its thing , and just keep them topped up .

So that said cheap ones it is . 

Thanks for the link Alan  , I'm limited  width wise so I need batteries about 225  wide , that keeps me around the 180 ah each .

Cheers .

 

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I echo that. Probably sulphated to hell by long term undercharging so how do you monitor the state of charge and ensure they are fully charged at least once a week.

 

I don't consider 3 1/2 years 'bad'. If all you want to do is use and replace then at less than 40p a day its no great loss. 

 

3.5 years is 1260 days.

3 batteries at £170 = £510

Equates to 40p / day

 

PLUS you get £20 - £25 each back from the scrapman reducing your cost even more.

 

Brings the cost down to 35p/day

 

If you want to molly coddle them,wrap them up and sing them songs at bedtime and get 5 years out of them you are free to do so.

 

I consider them as disposable items but at 35p-40p it is not worth worrying about when a cup of tea in a cafe is £1.50+ and a slice of cake is £3.00

2 minutes ago, Greg & Jax said:

Thanks for the link Alan  , I'm limited  width wise so I need batteries about 225  wide , that keeps me around the 180 ah each .

 

Ok - but you said one of your considerations was 3 x 200Ah 'solar' ?

[Greg & Jax]

Hi Alan .

Yes the dimensions of the solar ones  are 513/ 223/226 .

So should fit .

The exide ones are around the 270 mark .

[Greg & Jax]

On 18/12/2021 at 10:12, Tony Brooks said:

 

I echo that. Probably sulphated to hell by long term undercharging so how do you monitor the state of charge and ensure they are fully charged at least once a week.

Hi Tony. 

After reading your comment above I decided to look into if my batts are undercharged etc .

As of yet I have no batt monitor. 

I've used the 50 amp mains charger to charge the batteries to 14.8 then absorption. Then to 13.5 float mode .

Disconnected the mains charger and then  connected the solar .

The mppt shows the batteries at lower than 50 % charged .

Would that suggest my mains charger isn't charging as it should ? .

Regards Greg. 

[Richard10002]

25 minutes ago, Greg & Jax said:

Hi Tony. 

After reading your comment above I decided to look into if my batts are undercharged etc .

As of yet I have no batt monitor. 

I've used the 50 amp mains charger to charge the batteries to 14.8 then absorption. Then to 13.5 float mode .

Disconnected the mains charger and then  connected the solar .

The mppt shows the batteries at lower than 50 % charged .

Would that suggest my mains charger isn't charging as it should ? .

Regards Greg. 

 

It's probably charging as it has been designed to charge, but not as your batteries need to be charged.

 

Many chargers use an algorithm which charges for much too short a time in absorption mode, reverting to the low float voltage way too soon.

 

You/the charger should charge at absorption, (14.4V/14.8V), until the amps drawn are about 1-2% of actual capacity, and you may need to restart the charger a number of times to make this happen.... you also need a monitor to tell you Amps drawn, so you know when they are low enough.

 

I would suggest that the MPPT %age charged should be taken with a huge pinch of salt.

 

Tony and/or someone else may explain it better, but you are almost certainly undercharging your batteries, because the charger is behaving as it was designed to behave  

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

It's probably charging as it has been designed to charge, but not as your batteries need to be charged.

 

Many chargers use an algorithm which charges for much too short a time in absorption mode, reverting to the low float voltage way too soon.

 

 

I suspect mains chargers go to float so early because the designers need to take into account the following:

 

1) The user might leave the charger on the battery 24/7/365. 

2) The designer has no idea what sort of battery will be connected. FLA, sealed, gel, etc etc and the charger needs not to damage ANY of them during 1) above.

 

Looking after any type of battery in order to maximise life is a right load of faff, so many users elect not to bother and just resign themselves to buying new every two or three years. Others prefer to wring the maximum possible life out of them by mollycoddling them on an hour-by-hour basis. Or something in between. 

 

For a first class and highly 'readable' insight into what is needed to really look after your batteries well, along with full technical details, read WotEver's "battery primer" here:

https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/95003-battery-charging-primer/

 

 

[Greg & Jax]

Thank-you for the replies .

I now realise that I should have left them awhile before connecting the solar as its now up to about 60 % with no sun . 

I've also just used a hydrometer and all sell,s are in the green . .

Need to get my head in the game re the charging etc .

Usefull link to the charging primer .

Thank-you.