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haza

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1 minute ago, tree monkey said:

Following that it led me to

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chézy_formula

Which for some bizzare reason they tried to hammer into my head at uni.

Anyway sorry to wander off topic

I did my PhD in fluid dynamics, specifically thin films, which I guess is appropriate to the W&E right now!

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5 minutes ago, john6767 said:

If it was 3 inches down at Browhills this morning and it is 12 inches down now, the level is going to be empty by morning you would think.

Indeed, but it will take longer  to also be empty at the top of Smethwick.

 

MP.

 

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Just now, MoominPapa said:

Indeed, but it will take longer  to also be empty at the top of Smethwick.

 

MP.

 

Yep it will, assuming the water is escaping near to Brownhills though, and that Smethwick is not already empty.

 

Come on own up, who broke it.

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4 minutes ago, john6767 said:

Yep it will, assuming the water is escaping near to Brownhills though, and that Smethwick is not already empty.

 

Come on own up, who broke it.

Not us, we fixed it - twice

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11 minutes ago, john6767 said:

I did my PhD in fluid dynamics, specifically thin films, which I guess is appropriate to the W&E right now!

Well I was doing environmental landscape management,  which could also be appropriate I suppose, lots of damaged habitat in a dewaterd canal

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just been down to the overflow .and indeed its a good 8 inch down also as i got back to my boat its on the bed of the canal ...i phoned crt and explained ..im awaiting a call back 

  • Greenie 1
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well lets just see what happens ..this is how i think it will go ..crt just said they are sending some one out to see me ..now i think that some one will be about four blokes one doing the talking the other three ..well i dont now what they will be doing ..

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2 minutes ago, haza said:

well lets just see what happens ..this is how i think it will go ..crt just said they are sending some one out to see me ..now i think that some one will be about four blokes one doing the talking the other three ..well i dont now what they will be doing ..

Perhaps, but if the water is going down at that rate they need to know, if they don’t already from scada.  Keep us updated please.

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well well just had a very nice fella on the phone to me ..some one at chase water had turned the valve off ..crt thought there was a breach some where but as it turned  out there was not ..kieth the very nice man said it should start to rise now ..the very nice man said they had to ask chase water to turn the valve on .as crt dont own chase water  any more but they do own the water ...?????  well you learn something every day  

yes john 6767 indeed they do need to know ..and they do now ..but saying that if they did now in an instant ..i dont think they could have done a lot abt it ...do you ...in less jc helps them out 

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3 minutes ago, haza said:

well well just had a very nice fella on the phone to me ..some one at chase water had turned the valve off ..crt thought there was a breach some where but as it turned  out there was not ..kieth the very nice man said it should start to rise now ..the very nice man said they had to ask chase water to turn the valve on .as crt dont own chase water  any more but they do own the water ...?????  well you learn something every day  

I thought that they were not extracting water from Chasewater at the moment, as there was a dispute about who owned the valve which needed fixing.  A bit worrying if it is going down so fast though, there has to be a leak.

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1 hour ago, john6767 said:

Canalplan gives Longwood to Engine Arm as 31.31 miles, adding the bits is probably another 7 miles or so, so a bit under 40 miles I would say.  A lot of water at 12 inches down, particularly as the level was above normal on Sunday I would say.

 

Has the OP spoken to CRT?

Anglesey Branch, Norton Canes, Bradley, all of Dudley Tunnel and it's spurs and caverns to Parkhead top lock, half a mile to Walsall Top Lock (which I think is technically actually part of the W&E), the arm at Longwood, Engine Arm, Hollybank Basin, Horseley Fields to Wolverhampton. I suspect Wikipedia is close.

 

JP

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2 minutes ago, john6767 said:

I thought that they were not extracting water from Chasewater at the moment, as there was a dispute about who owned the valve which needed fixing.  A bit worrying if it is going down so fast though, there has to be a leak.

Hasn't dropped at Bentley Bridge since 4.30pm and may be rising slowly. 

Edited by pearley
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1 hour ago, MoominPapa said:

Just because it's 12" down in one place, it's not safe to assume it's 12" down over the whole 40 miles. It'll take a long time to drain 40 miles of shallow, meandering canal through a point leak. I just googled "hydraulic gradient" and was boggled, but my intuition is that  the canal could be empty at one point and still full only a few miles away, at least for a while.

 

MP.

 

I have sometimes wondered about the effect of drawing a paddle on a long pound. I once had to run water down through the top two locks at Rushall into the mile pound (which has a history of being kept kept low due to leakage into adjacent properties hence my original question) and after about ten minutes a bloke came to tell me that the level at Longwood moorings was 3" down and the boats were pulling their pins out. I have to say I was sceptical that it would have that effect but I did throw all the paddles up.

 

JP

Edited by Captain Pegg
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7 minutes ago, haza said:

h no theres no leak ..all is going to be honky dory in a few hours so the very very nice man told me .nothing more to do now then watch good old corra 

If there is no leak where is the water going, hard to see one days lock usage is going to do that,  but lets hope all is good by the morning.

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2 minutes ago, john6767 said:

If there is no leak where is the water going, hard to see one days lock usage is going to do that,  but lets hope all is good by the morning.

I thought it seemed like a lot of water to be lost in one day but in addition to lock usage their is flow over gauging weirs, leakage through gates and evaporation. And maybe some licensed and unlicensed extraction.

 

JP

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7 minutes ago, john6767 said:

If there is no leak where is the water going, hard to see one days lock usage is going to do that,  but lets hope all is good by the morning.

We used quite a bit of water emptying and filling pounds at Walsall during the jury-rig repairs on Sunday morning, and CRT presumably did the same whilst making the permanent repairs. Plus the number of lock passages between the Wolverhampton and Birmingham levels this weekend must have been a couple of orders of magnitude greater than usual. Combine that with turning the taps off at Chasewater and it's possible.

 

MP.

 

 

Edited by MoominPapa
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Blisworth arm (17 locks), so at Gayton. The missus caught a taxi too work , I was supposed to single hand down the arm. But it was empty. I spent 2 hours filling it, & was about to set of when CaRT turned up. There was a boat coming up with no water so they made me wait in the lock whilst they ran all the water down that I'd just filled up, & wouldn't let me go down with the water. The missus finished work & went home to the marina, phoned 'where are you', lock 3. It's a 2 hour walk up that arm, I'd got to lock 4 when she showed up.

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Whatever's reduced the level so much, it won't be the boat movements. To get a rough estimate of the effect, I divided a lock volume of 25x2x2 cubic metres by a surface area for the Wolverhampton level of 50km x 6m. This gives us a drop per boat of one third of a mm, so 30 boats leaving after the BCN Challenge would account for less than half an inch off. The boats would also have brought the same amount of water down into the level from Titford Pools! But I am ignoring the effect of any back pumping taking place; doesn't the Smethwick pumping station raise water from the new to the old main line?

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