Oliver Cromwell final moments

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Robbo said:

Certainly went down nose first.

 

Its most unfortunate the videos all seem to cut out the most important part, where the boat begins to transition to foundering. We have no idea what happened at this crucial point as all the vids skip straight to the bow being completely underwater and it going down. Nothing much to be learned from just watching it up-end and disappear. 

 

My guess is the serious head-on collision with the dockside caused that concrete in the hull to shift and tear the steel and from that point it was taking on water. Hard to judge as as there is not much footage shown between then and it going down. Do we know the time between it hitting the dockside and it obviously foundering? 

[howardang]

10 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Its most unfortunate the videos all seem to cut out the most important part, where the boat begins to transition to foundering. We have no idea what happened at this crucial point as all the vids skip straight to the bow being completely underwater and it going down. Nothing much to be learned from just watching it up-end and disappear. 

 

My guess is the serious head-on collision with the dockside caused that concrete in the hull to shift and tear the steel and from that point it was taking on water. Hard to judge as as there is not much footage shown between then and it going down. Do we know the time between it hitting the dockside and it obviously foundering? 

Unfortunately, it is all guesswork, but the head on collision with the dock wall, which appeared to be on a corner (i.e. a sharp point) may have caused a split weld or even a puncture to the hull which could have led to the ingress of water which caused her to sink. I am slightly surprised that on the footage there is no sign of anyone inspecting the boat to check for damage before proceeding to sea. However, we have only seen a glimpse and this may have been done later. Unless someone is prepared to dive on her we will never know.

 

Howard

[Dalesman]

From the original owners.

 

http://river.englishholidaycruises.co.uk/oliver-cromwell-sinks-in-the-irish-sea-on-the-way-to-coleraine-n-ireland/

[WotEver]

What is the likelihood of a diving inspection, does anyone know? Is 50m a bit deep for that?

[Bee]

Unwieldy beast wasn't it. My first thoughts were that water over the fore end whilst under tow sunk it but it seems to have been well protected with plywood over all the doors and windows. Maybe it was the collision that opened something up. For those of us with boats that venture into slightly salty water though it is worth looking at the apparently calmish sea and then looking more closely as it sinks, those waves are actually quite a bit bigger than they look.

[blackrose]

16 hours ago, RichM said:

I hadn't seen that until now. Here's the video for anyone who is interested:
 

 

I noticed at approx 7:50 minutes into the video Oliver Cromwell appears to hit into the dock before being dragged back into position. Not sure if it hit hard enough to potentially cause any damage. Thoughts?

The narrator at the beginning described the boat properly. It was a stern wheeler (albeit a fake one) rather than a paddle steamer. Oh wait a minute, MtB had the correct description - a right eyesore of a vessel! Its sinking is no great tragedy.

[StephenA]

Surely they would have had some bilge pumps and some power to them?

[Dalesman]

16 hours ago, RichM said:

I hadn't seen that until now. Here's the video for anyone who is interested:
 

 

I noticed at approx 7:50 minutes into the video Oliver Cromwell appears to hit into the dock before being dragged back into position. Not sure if it hit hard enough to potentially cause any damage. Thoughts?

 

[StephenA]

Just now, blackrose said:

The narrator at the beginning described the boat properly. It was a stern wheeler (albeit a fake one) rather than a paddle steamer. Oh wait a minute, MtB had the correct description - a right eyesore of a vessel! Its sinking is no great tragedy.

I have to admit that although its sad that the vessel has been lost its not actually a great loss

[Dalesman]

I wonder why they did not have a stern tug to help them into the lock ..?

[blackrose]

Just now, StephenA said:

Surely they would have had some bilge pumps and some power to them?

I don't think any bilge pump is going to save a vessel that's going down vertically! I concede it didn't begin like that but unless the vessel had an onboard generator that was powered up or ready to go then batteries won't keep a bilge pump running for all that long. 

[BruceinSanity]

9 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I don't think any bilge pump is going to save a vessel that's going down vertically! I concede it didn't begin like that but unless the vessel had an onboard generator that was powered up or ready to go then batteries won't keep a bilge pump running for all that long. 

And as there was no fuel on board...

[Wanderer Vagabond]

On 26/05/2018 at 14:54, mrsmelly said:

Always worth a giggle when all the PR bothered numpties have to mention " No polution was caused "  Just like the non polluting electric cars!! . When I was on the Thames a couple of days ago under the airport flightpath a plane using masses of fuel was taking off and landing every few seconds and thats just one airport out of thousands worldwide never mind industry etc etc etc etc etc still I suppose that one boat not polluting will make a huge difference. Keep on recycling everybody 

I'm not really sure why you choose to mock recycling, it isn't something that has  started recently. Perhaps you need to have a chat with your elderly Mum since, unless you were either too rich or posh, recycling was something that happened everyday when I was a kid. Chips and stuff from the greengrocer came wrapped in newspaper, a trip to the Jumble Sale on a Saturday morning was a weekly event, when stuff broke we fixed it rather than throw it away, when you went shopping you took a radical piece of kit called a 'shopping bag'. Personally I'm quite happy that this boat sinking didn't release any pollution or perhaps you look forward to the day when we can cheerfully pump our untreated sewage back in the sea, I mean why not if everyone else is polluting?

[WotEver]

56 minutes ago, StephenA said:

Surely they would have had some bilge pumps and some power to them?

As somebody previously pointed out, at 11 mins ish you can see what appears to be water being pumped out from the port bow area near the waterline. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by WotEver

[mrsmelly]

2 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I'm not really sure why you choose to mock recycling, it isn't something that has  started recently. Perhaps you need to have a chat with your elderly Mum since, unless you were either too rich or posh, recycling was something that happened everyday when I was a kid. Chips and stuff from the greengrocer came wrapped in newspaper, a trip to the Jumble Sale on a Saturday morning was a weekly event, when stuff broke we fixed it rather than throw it away, when you went shopping you took a radical piece of kit called a 'shopping bag'. Personally I'm quite happy that this boat sinking didn't release any pollution or perhaps you look forward to the day when we can cheerfully pump our untreated sewage back in the sea, I mean why not if everyone else is polluting?

You realy do need to view your half empty glass from a different angle. I love reading your posts they make me realise how lucky I am in life not to have been crushed into your attitude. You need to go to bed with a coathanger in your mouth then you might wake up with a smile on your face 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

7 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

You realy do need to view your half empty glass from a different angle. I love reading your posts they make me realise how lucky I am in life not to have been crushed into your attitude. You need to go to bed with a coathanger in your mouth then you might wake up with a smile on your face 

Despite reference to the fact you clearly spend a lot of your time looking through the bottom of a glass, you have totally failed to address the point made. Recycling isn't some new phenomenon, we were doing it without a thought when I was a kid. Drink bottles were taken back to the off-licence, milk (glass) bottles were re-used, things that were broken were fixed rather than putting them in the skip you however seem to (ironically) 'celebrate' that we have now become a single use society sending most stuff to landfill rather than making proper use of them. Why?

[mrsmelly]

11 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Despite reference to the fact you clearly spend a lot of your time looking through the bottom of a glass, you have totally failed to address the point made. Recycling isn't some new phenomenon, we were doing it without a thought when I was a kid. Drink bottles were taken back to the off-licence, milk (glass) bottles were re-used, things that were broken were fixed rather than putting them in the skip you however seem to (ironically) 'celebrate' that we have now become a single use society sending most stuff to landfill rather than making proper use of them. Why?

Not forgetting that when we were kids most people used push mowers not electric ones therefore saving on pollution and keeping fit. Since we were kids most things have gone pear shaped. How many flights left for instance Heathrow in 1965 daily? You can google, I havnt but we play lip service to so called greener living yet use more and more resources every year whilst waffling on on tv etc about being more " Green ". People listen to and beleive so much bunkum today its laughable. Have you seen the hair shampoo advert lately that extols the virtue of their particular brand being " Gluten free" ? The list is endless. How about the mug phrase " Up grade "? adopted by fone companies to simply mean, buying into yet another new one with an extra switch when your old fone works well anyway. When we as kids recycled we actualy used the same pop bottle etc again now Im sorry its simple lip service to a growing problem.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

Not forgetting that when we were kids most people used push mowers not electric ones therefore saving on pollution and keeping fit. Since we were kids most things have gone pear shaped. How many flights left for instance Heathrow in 1965 daily? You can google, I havnt but we play lip service to so called greener living yet use more and more resources every year whilst waffling on on tv etc about being more " Green ". People listen to and beleive so much bunkum today its laughable. Have you seen the hair shampoo advert lately that extols the virtue of their particular brand being " Gluten free" ? The list is endless. How about the mug phrase " Up grade "? adopted by fone companies to simply mean, buying into yet another new one with an extra switch when your old fone works well anyway. When we as kids recycled we actualy used the same pop bottle etc again now Im sorry its simple lip service to a growing problem.

 

 

Yes. I had a woman customer a couple of years go who actually believed by driving her silly new 'low emissions' car around, she was saving the planet. 

 

She actually said to me "are you going to be here for half an hour? I'm going to walk to the shops. Actually, I think I'll drive my new car there it will be better for the environment."

 

I looked askance at her and so she went on to explain, by driving here new ultra-low emissions car she was reducing pollution and therefore helping the environment. So it was her civic duty to drive it whenever possible. Jeez.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

6 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Not forgetting that when we were kids most people used push mowers not electric ones therefore saving on pollution and keeping fit. Since we were kids most things have gone pear shaped. How many flights left for instance Heathrow in 1965 daily? You can google, I havnt but we play lip service to so called greener living yet use more and more resources every year whilst waffling on on tv etc about being more " Green ". People listen to and beleive so much bunkum today its laughable. Have you seen the hair shampoo advert lately that extols the virtue of their particular brand being " Gluten free" ? The list is endless. How about the mug phrase " Up grade "? adopted by fone companies to simply mean, buying into yet another new one with an extra switch when your old fone works well anyway. When we as kids recycled we actualy used the same pop bottle etc again now Im sorry its simple lip service to a growing problem.

So I suppose that the answer is just not to bother. Some people don't bother to clear up after their dogs, why should I bother? Some people drop litter, why should I bother to find a bin? some people fly tip their rubbish, I might as well do so as well.

 

The period when things went pear shaped if you like was in the late 70's and 80's (who was PM then?) when ostentatious wealth became the fashion (loadsamoney). To demonstrate this wealth we became a throwaway society and since the consumer economy relies on people endlessly replacing stuff, that is where we are today. If some people are bucking this trend, why ridicule them? Are you really saying that they just shouldn't bother?

[Guest]

On 28/05/2018 at 10:26, StephenA said:

Surely they would have had some bilge pumps and some power to them?

Possibly yes, but then didn't the Titanic? And hundreds of other boats and ships that have sunk.

 

If the water is coming in faster than any bilge pump can remove it there will only be one outcome.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by MJG

[Guest]

On 28/05/2018 at 13:10, mrsmelly said:

You realy do need to view your half empty glass from a different angle. I love reading your posts they make me realise how lucky I am in life not to have been crushed into your attitude. You need to go to bed with a coathanger in your mouth then you might wake up with a smile on your face 

Depends which way he inserts it....

[StephenA]

3 hours ago, MJG said:

Possibly yes, but then didn't the Titanic? And hundreds of other boats and ships that have sunk.

 

If the water is coming in faster than any bilge pump can remove it there will only be one outcome.

 

 

Yes - and they knew the Titanic was sinking and had a sodding great hole in it.  You would have thought that someone would have noticed that there was a lot of water being pumped out of The Oliver Cromwell.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, StephenA said:

Yes - and they knew the Titanic was sinking and had a sodding great hole in it.  You would have thought that someone would have noticed that there was a lot of water being pumped out of The Oliver Cromwell.

Depends if they were automatic. If not........

[Keeping Up]

As I sit here at Gloucester Docks looking at the Elgar filling the gap where the Cromwell used to be, it occurs to me that nobody has mentioned the fact that the Cromwell was a static hotel after she was refused a Passenger Certificate because the bottom had been overplated rather than replated.

[pete harrison]

6 minutes ago, Keeping Up said:

As I sit here at Gloucester Docks looking at the Elgar filling the gap where the Cromwell used to be, it occurs to me that nobody has mentioned the fact that the Cromwell was a static hotel after she was refused a Passenger Certificate because the bottom had been overplated rather than replated.

Sort of mentioned in post number 18