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IWA Asking for info - re gap in boaters facilities


Jennifer McM

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A great initiative - instead of moaning, we should be reporting

 

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In a major drive to improve boaters’ facilities nationwide, The Inland Waterways Association (IWA) is asking for boaters’ help to identify areas on the UK’s canals and rivers where water and waste facilities are absent or inadequate.

The GapTracker campaign will gather evidence over the summer months to build up an accurate picture of boaters’ facilities across the whole waterway network, and IWA is asking boaters to supplement its own research by reporting significant gaps or where a site is in need of major refurbishment.

 

https://www.waterways.org.uk/news/view?id=361&x[0]=news/list

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An extensive piece of work has already been done in the past by the members of the South East Waterways Partnership Boaters Subgroup, on which I volunteer.

 

We surveyed all the facilities that exist on South East Waterways, (both CRT owned and private) to validate them against CRT's own records, and to allow them to correct them.  CRT's records were regularly surprisingly inaccurate.

 

This was then compared to a CRT standard that suggested what should be provided in an ideal world - e.g. not more than "x miles and/oyr Y locks between water points".

 

A set of massive spreadsheets was prepared by one of our members, showing all the places where this notional standard was not currently met.

 

Having done all that, I rather suspect CRT now have all that data stashed away, but that it has probably not resulted in the provision of one new facility.  In fact some that did exists are now gone.

 

it is not much use identifying the gaps if CRT neither have the interest or the funds to do anything about it.  With boating apparently becomin less and less important to them, I wouldn't hold my breath that this initiative will achieve any more than the one I worked on.

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9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But it helps to make folk think that the IWA are 'still on their side', as opposed to the last few years of Brown-Nosing C&RT.

Quite!

 

Fewer people could be more disillusioned with the IWA than I have become over the last decade or so.

 

I find it quite impossible to give them any support, even if a particular initiative does from time to time seem to be sending the right message.

 

I find the obvious more or less open distain for live-aboard boaters by many of their leadership totally devisive, even though I am not a full time live aboard myself.

 

They would have to change massively before I could ever give them active support again.

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12 minutes ago, Athy said:

I hav eread, though I can't recall where, that sanny stations are provided at "every half-day's cruising". Whether this is official policy I don't know.

CRT evolved a national standard in recent years that set out the ideal situation.

In some areas it is met - others don't come close.

 

It is not helped by facilities that fall out of use for some reason, and never get re-opened.  For example there is a sanitary station in Berkhamsted that has never operated in the 13 years I have been back on the canals.  So there is none between Cow Roast and Apsley on a canal that has one of the highest densities of live aboard boaters.

 

That is a full 20 broad locks between facilities, and will take most leisure boaters a day, minimum.

CRT know this already, but seek to do nothing about it.

 

The IWA simply gathering the information afresh is sadly unlikely to change the situation.

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1 hour ago, Athy said:

I hav eread, though I can't recall where, that sanny stations are provided at "every half-day's cruising". Whether this is official policy I don't know.

Some people cruise 20 + lock miles a day some 2 so half a day is misleading usually the 2 is also where there are lots of boaters.  Maybe better to try for number of moored boats per mile as an indicator of where to put them, but that is commonsense, which has not been trained at management school for 20 or more years.

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1 minute ago, Detling said:

Some people cruise 20 + lock miles a day some 2 so half a day is misleading usually the 2 is also where there are lots of boaters.  Maybe better to try for number of moored boats per mile as an indicator of where to put them, but that is commonsense, which has not been trained at management school for 20 or more years.

I fully realise that some boaters travel further in a day than others - the "half day's cruising" must be seen as an average (3 to 4 hours would perhaps be typical).

By the same token,moored boats unmoor themselves and travel on, so they will be difficult to count!

 

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1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

An extensive piece of work has already been done in the past by the members of the South East Waterways Partnership Boaters Subgroup, on which I volunteer.

 

We surveyed all the facilities that exist on South East Waterways, (both CRT owned and private) to validate them against CRT's own records, and to allow them to correct them.  CRT's records were regularly surprisingly inaccurate.

 

This was then compared to a CRT standard that suggested what should be provided in an ideal world - e.g. not more than "x miles and/oyr Y locks between water points".

 

A set of massive spreadsheets was prepared by one of our members, showing all the places where this notional standard was not currently met.

 

Having done all that, I rather suspect CRT now have all that data stashed away, but that it has probably not resulted in the provision of one new facility.  In fact some that did exists are now gone.

 

it is not much use identifying the gaps if CRT neither have the interest or the funds to do anything about it.  With boating apparently becomin less and less important to them, I wouldn't hold my breath that this initiative will achieve any more than the one I worked on.

I know that it is comforting to knock CaRT and that some also want to suggest that EA is soooo much better than CaRT, but they should try cruising (especially not too fast) along waters such as he River Nene, where we have been for the past few days. The EA really do not have much thought for what ash to be done to encourage greater usage - we have typically seen 4 or 5, 8 at the most, boats moving on any one day. A well as the considerable shortage of water and elsan places, there are previous few places to moor, especially at some of the more interesting villages along the way. We have cruised for almost a day without seeing anywhere even for lunch. This is all the more an issue given that this is one of the best rivers to cruise - visually. Even the places that are provided are oftenb about as basic as can be.

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After only been continuously cruising for two years, we've managed to get a good idea of the conditions of sanny stations, some are brilliant (and should be awarded), and others are literally the pits. We're not really aware of the 'politics' (for want of a better word) surrounding C&RT/IWA, though some information has trickled through, so it's understandable that some are tired of 'banging their heads on C&RT's brick walls'. 

 

It's a big ask, but if boating organisations come together, surely a lot could be achieved. Being divided doesn't help the cause. 

 

Obviously, I know this isn't an ideal world. For some reason I feel I need to apologise for trying to be positive. 

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2 hours ago, Jennifer McM said:

It's a big ask, but if boating organisations come together, surely a lot could be achieved. Being divided doesn't help the cause.

 

The problem I see is that the IWA seeks to divide boaters without any need for help in doing so by any other boating organisation or CRT.

Far too much has been done by their leadership to demonise live aboard boaters, particularly those who's boats they see as scruffy or untidy and not moving enough.

Wild accusations are made that seem to blame a whole swathe of boat owners for all the current ills from rubbish to muddy tow-paths to broken locks, yet most of these people have just the same rights to be on the canals as those who so openly denigrate them.

 

I could not support the IWA unless attitudes, particularly those of their leadership, change dramatically, which frankly seems unlikely.

 

To be honest I would struggle to even support boating organisations who sign "memorandums of agreement" with the IWA, (which I can't see as a boating organisation).  The RBOA is pretty suspect as well, from what I have observed of it.

If you are a live-aboard boater, have you actually read what various officers of the IWA have had to say about you in recent years?  If not, do so - it might surprise you!

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2 hours ago, Jennifer McM said:

After only been continuously cruising for two years, we've managed to get a good idea of the conditions of sanny stations, some are brilliant (and should be awarded), and others are literally the pits. We're not really aware of the 'politics' (for want of a better word) surrounding C&RT/IWA, though some information has trickled through, so it's understandable that some are tired of 'banging their heads on C&RT's brick walls'. 

 

It's a big ask, but if boating organisations come together, surely a lot could be achieved. Being divided doesn't help the cause. 

 

Obviously, I know this isn't an ideal world. For some reason I feel I need to apologise for trying to be positive. 

You don't need to apologise. But getting boating organisations together is an impossible task at this point in time. Yes ALL boaters need to work together to bring C&RT back to their navigation and boating roots but it aint gonna happen. If it doesn't happen then as Alan Fincher says Boating will become less and less important to C&RT and the canals will, eventually, be just for joggers, cyclists and fishermen. Ultimately the land will be handed over to the builders and that would the end. As said the IWA are a complete and utter waste of time. I was a member years ago but I soon saw the light. My Boats? Both sold, I couldn't see C&RT doing much for boaters so I got out.

 

You can see the diversity of opinions just by reading the posts on this forum. Boaters at this point in time do not want to work together for the greater good in my opinion.

Edited by pete.i
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4 hours ago, pete.i said:

You don't need to apologise. But getting boating organisations together is an impossible task at this point in time. Yes ALL boaters need to work together to bring C&RT back to their navigation and boating roots but it aint gonna happen. If it doesn't happen then as Alan Fincher says Boating will become less and less important to C&RT and the canals will, eventually, be just for joggers, cyclists and fishermen. Ultimately the land will be handed over to the builders and that would the end. As said the IWA are a complete and utter waste of time. I was a member years ago but I soon saw the light. My Boats? Both sold, I couldn't see C&RT doing much for boaters so I got out.

 

You can see the diversity of opinions just by reading the posts on this forum. Boaters at this point in time do not want to work together for the greater good in my opinion.

Mmmm Whilst I agree things are not all roses round the door I think your taking an early pessimistic view. I am still lucky enough to be able to live aboard and unless my legs get so bad that I cannot operate the boat I aint moving back into non floating non moving property except kicking and screaming. We are again at present moving round the county covering many miles and areas and it is still wonderful. I think we have a long way to go before there is a better lifestyle proffered land based. Anyway must fly barby at the boat next door with ice cold G and Ts on offer :cheers:

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Just now, mrsmelly said:

Mmmm Whilst I agree things are not all roses round the door I think your taking an early pessimistic view. I am still lucky enough to be able to live aboard and unless my legs get so bad that I cannot operate the boat I aint moving back into non floating non moving property except kicking and screaming. We are again at present moving round the county covering many miles and areas and it is still wonderful. I think we have a long way to go before there is a better lifestyle proffered land based. Anyway must fly barby at the boat next door with ice cold G and Ts on offer :cheers:

I sincerely hope you are right, I really do. I haven't completely turned my back on C&RT. I do volunteer work for them and I do have a couple of boater friends with whom I go boating. But at this point in time, and I stress that phrase, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, I just do not see very much to be optimistic about. Like you if my legs don't give out, or any other part of my body, and C&RT give a lot more consideration to boaters I might again buy a boat. I have to say though I really wouldn't consider living on one. I don't decry people who do, whatever floats your boat, it's not for me though. Having said that, AT THIS POINT IN TIME. One never knows.

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9 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

CRT evolved a national standard in recent years that set out the ideal situation.

In some areas it is met - others don't come close.

 

It is not helped by facilities that fall out of use for some reason, and never get re-opened.  For example there is a sanitary station in Berkhamsted that has never operated in the 13 years I have been back on the canals.  So there is none between Cow Roast and Apsley on a canal that has one of the highest densities of live aboard boaters.

 

That is a full 20 broad locks between facilities, and will take most leisure boaters a day, minimum.

CRT know this already, but seek to do nothing about it.

 

The IWA simply gathering the information afresh is sadly unlikely to change the situation.

And in an area where water control is already difficult to say the least. 

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10 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

An extensive piece of work has already been done in the past by the members of the South East Waterways Partnership Boaters Subgroup, on which I volunteer.

We surveyed all the facilities that exist on South East Waterways, (both CRT owned and private) to validate them against CRT's own records, and to allow them to correct them.  CRT's records were regularly surprisingly inaccurate.

This was then compared to a CRT standard that suggested what should be provided in an ideal world - e.g. not more than "x miles and/oyr Y locks between water points".

A set of massive spreadsheets was prepared by one of our members, showing all the places where this notional standard was not currently met.

Having done all that, I rather suspect CRT now have all that data stashed away, but that it has probably not resulted in the provision of one new facility.  In fact some that did exists are now gone.

it is not much use identifying the gaps if CRT neither have the interest or the funds to do anything about it.  With boating apparently becomin less and less important to them, I wouldn't hold my breath that this initiative will achieve any more than the one I worked on.

 

10 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Fewer people could be more disillusioned with the IWA than I have become over the last decade or so.

I find it quite impossible to give them any support, even if a particular initiative does from time to time seem to be sending the right message.

I find the obvious more or less open distain for live-aboard boaters by many of their leadership totally devisive, even though I am not a full time live aboard myself.

They would have to change massively before I could ever give them active support again.

 

9 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

CRT evolved a national standard in recent years that set out the ideal situation.
In some areas it is met - others don't come close.

It is not helped by facilities that fall out of use for some reason, and never get re-opened.  For example there is a sanitary station in Berkhamsted that has never operated in the 13 years I have been back on the canals.  So there is none between Cow Roast and Apsley on a canal that has one of the highest densities of live aboard boaters.

That is a full 20 broad locks between facilities, and will take most leisure boaters a day, minimum.

CRT know this already, but seek to do nothing about it.

The IWA simply gathering the information afresh is sadly unlikely to change the situation.

 

5 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

The problem I see is that the IWA seeks to divide boaters without any need for help in doing so by any other boating organisation or CRT.

Far too much has been done by their leadership to demonise live aboard boaters, particularly those who's boats they see as scruffy or untidy and not moving enough.
Wild accusations are made that seem to blame a whole swathe of boat owners for all the current ills from rubbish to muddy tow-paths to broken locks, yet most of these people have just the same rights to be on the canals as those who so openly denigrate them.

I could not support the IWA unless attitudes, particularly those of their leadership, change dramatically, which frankly seems unlikely.

To be honest I would struggle to even support boating organisations who sign "memorandums of agreement" with the IWA, (which I can't see as a boating organisation).  The RBOA is pretty suspect as well, from what I have observed of it.

If you are a live-aboard boater, have you actually read what various officers of the IWA have had to say about you in recent years?  If not, do so - it might surprise you!

So we can assume from all that moaning that you have no intention of assisting this seemingly worthwhile information gathering, just in case it may hit home with CRT.  I have already volunteered to submit some relevant info and I know personally IWA Officers who not only definitely do not have the attitude toward live-aboard boater that you describe but also actually have, and do, live-aboard themselves.

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13 minutes ago, canalboat said:

So we can assume from all that moaning that you have no intention of assisting this seemingly worthwhile information gathering, just in case it may hit home with CRT.

 

Yes you may safely assume exactly that!

 

I have already been involved in an extensive piece of work for CRT, volunteering on on behalf of South East Waterways.

This took many hours of many people's volunteering time.

 

AFAIK it has never been used for anything, other than to tick a box of "task achieved".

But if they do want the data, it already exists.

Perhaps for the South East, at least the IWA could ask CRT for it, as they already have it.

Edited by alan_fincher
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NABO objected to the bill going through parliament to enable the middle levels commissioner to charge for licences on the basis there was no minimum level of facilities or moorings written into the Act. We were contacted asking us to withdraw our objections as they intended to adopt the IWA minimum standards once the Act was granted. We said of course just add them into the Act as a legal minimum we’ve not had a response I guess that’s not what they have in mind. Like Alan I suspect this is CRTs approach.

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