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Opinions on this solar setup?


Markinaboat

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On 25/05/2018 at 13:07, reg said:

I've actually retracted the comment as I misread it, due to as Mike says their technical illiteracy(and to be fair my actually illiteracy) , as saying they can output 100Amps. 

It's the old Ah v Amps again 

Your statement is more accurate. 

If the supplier doesn't understand the difference then I would think twice about buying from them, simples. 

I would temper that by suggesting if the supplier has what you want, at the right price for you, and you know how it works, it doesn’t really matter what the supplier knows about it/them.

 

I reluctantly buy from PC world and Currys from time to time, but I wouldn’t trust a word they tell me in terms of advice, because I have heard a lot of bad advice and salesmanship over the years, so could never know what might be true, correct, or otherwise.

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2 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

I would temper that by suggesting if the supplier has what you want, at the right price for you, and you know how it works, it doesn’t really matter what the supplier knows about it/them.

 

I reluctantly buy from PC world and Currys from time to time, but I wouldn’t trust a word they tell me in terms of advice, because I have heard a lot of bad advice and salesmanship over the years, so could never know what might be true, correct, or otherwise.

Fair comment, on reflection I could go with your reasoning rather than dismissing them out of hand. 

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50 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Yes, the area gets damp and condensation even if fully sealed round the edges.

The panels themselves don't take  any wear at all, connections between cells breaking within 12 months on a regular basis. This is from more than one manufacturer. 

Of course some people will have one that has lasted 5 years, but I've seen and replaced lots which haven't. 

The unisolar ones are your best bet, one each side to get your 24v

"The panels themselves don't take  any wear at all" -  Are you referring to this particular make or polycrystalline or ANY 'stuck-down' panel with regards to cells breaking down?

 

Edited to say: They will very rarely be be walked upon.

Edited by Markinaboat
accidentally repeated quote
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On 25/05/2018 at 18:21, Markinaboat said:

Leaning towards them Johnny, they sit lower than many. What's the size and output is each panel? Thanks

These are supposedly 150w each and approx 67cmx148cm, which give or take a few mm seems to be a standard-ish size. If I put the grippy strip down either siide it'll be better for walking past but it's pretty doable anyway if you are careful. The brackets I bent very slightly to accomodate the roof angle (they are strong so you need a vice and hammer or something) and they are just siliconed down, with bolts onto the panels. The only disadvantage is that to take the panels up you have to pull the brackets off the silicon as the bracket bolts are not really accessible.

I wouldn't get these particular panels though - at nearly 1pm on 100% sunny day I'm only seeing 29v/5.9a or 13.4v/12.4a. Seems low to me.

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On 03/06/2018 at 12:50, Johny London said:

These are supposedly 150w each and approx 67cmx148cm, which give or take a few mm seems to be a standard-ish size. If I put the grippy strip down either siide it'll be better for walking past but it's pretty doable anyway if you are careful. The brackets I bent very slightly to accomodate the roof angle (they are strong so you need a vice and hammer or something) and they are just siliconed down, with bolts onto the panels. The only disadvantage is that to take the panels up you have to pull the brackets off the silicon as the bracket bolts are not really accessible.

I wouldn't get these particular panels though - at nearly 1pm on 100% sunny day I'm only seeing 29v/5.9a or 13.4v/12.4a. Seems low to me.

A little too wide as wnat them side by side as opposed to inline.

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On ‎03‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 12:50, Johny London said:

I wouldn't get these particular panels though - at nearly 1pm on 100% sunny day I'm only seeing 29v/5.9a or 13.4v/12.4a. Seems low to me.

I would take that as a reason TO BUY THEM.

 

By 1:00pm your batteries are almost charged and are not looking for a high current, at 13.4 volts your batteries are possibly in 'float' mode. What size is your battery bank ?

 

(I have a 1300Ah battery bank and taking the usual 2% tail current = fully charged, I could be having 26 amps showing as going into the batteries.)

 

Remember the charge rate is determined by battery - NOT - by the charging device (be it Solar, a battery charger, or an alternator)

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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On 02/06/2018 at 11:10, matty40s said:

Yes, the area gets damp and condensation even if fully sealed round the edges.

The panels themselves don't take  any wear at all, connections between cells breaking within 12 months on a regular basis. This is from more than one manufacturer. 

Of course some people will have one that has lasted 5 years, but I've seen and replaced lots which haven't. 

The unisolar ones are your best bet, one each side to get your 24v

Matty - I wonder if these poly flexible panels fail due to being in direct contact with the (hot) roof? If so, what if they were mounted on ply 9mm/12mm ply boards, taped at the edges and kept well painted to keep the moisture out? Then mount the boards on small blocks/brackets bonded to the roof (allowing just enough height to allow an air gap at the top of the radius). Any thoughts? This way, should they fail then easy (easier!) to replace. Would keep the finished article much lower than solid mono panels.

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Just now, Markinaboat said:

Matty - I wonder if these poly flexible panels fail due to being in direct contact with the (hot) roof? If so, what if they were mounted on ply 9mm/12mm ply boards, taped at the edges and kept well painted to keep the moisture out? Then mount the boards on small blocks/brackets bonded to the roof (allowing just enough height to allow an air gap at the top of the radius). Any thoughts? This way, should they fail then easy (easier!) to replace. Would keep the finished article much lower than solid mono panels.

A lot probably fail due to been flexed too much before installed.  Poly is more resistant than Mono for flexing.

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11 minutes ago, Robbo said:

A lot probably fail due to been flexed too much before installed.  Poly is more resistant than Mono for flexing.

Don't the polycrystalline's come in a rigid box/packaging?

Edited by Markinaboat
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47 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I would take that as a reason TO BUY THEM.

 

By 1:00pm your batteries are almost charged and are not looking for a high current, at 13.4 volts your batteries are possibly in 'float' mode. What size is your battery bank ?

 

(I have a 1300Ah battery bank and taking the usual 2% tail current = fully charged, I could be having 26 amps showing as going into the batteries.)

 

Remember the charge rate is determined by battery - NOT - by the charging device (be it Solar, a battery charger, or an alternator)

I'd be happy with 5.9 amps in float mode on a 24v system.

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30 minutes ago, Markinaboat said:

Don't the polycrystalline's come in a rigid box/packaging?

Not if you flex them afterwards like what's his name did on that podcast cruising the cut.

 

Monocrystalline is made from a single crystal which makes then more fragile than the multi crystal ones.   Ofcourse the connections between the cells is probably more the issue on cheaper panels rather than the cell itself.

Edited by Robbo
English :/
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I did touch on that - the batteries are knackerd (as usual) so wjo knows what their characteristics are now - but I can say that reading was with fridge/inverter/laptop on - so plenty of current soak - but the reading stayed the same when the fridge cycled off. Anyway let's not get started on batteries.

 

Markinabout - I'm not sure that mounting flexi's on 9mm ply is going to produce anything other than something akin to rigid panels is it? Which are cheaper especially when you don't have to buy ply. There are different sizes of rigids as I'm sure you know - so that coupled with the possibility of mounting either way around should give you what you want. Do look into those Z brackets though - they were fairly cheap (certainly compared to those rip off big plastic mounting sets) thugh you need to not get your ropes caught at the corners (could be negaed if z brackets fitted right at the ends).

 

I'm going to get another two of those panels then :)

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4 minutes ago, Johny London said:

I did touch on that - the batteries are knackerd (as usual) so wjo knows what their characteristics are now - but I can say that reading was with fridge/inverter/laptop on - so plenty of current soak - but the reading stayed the same when the fridge cycled off. Anyway let's not get started on batteries.

 

Markinabout - I'm not sure that mounting flexi's on 9mm ply is going to produce anything other than something akin to rigid panels is it? Which are cheaper especially when you don't have to buy ply. There are different sizes of rigids as I'm sure you know - so that coupled with the possibility of mounting either way around should give you what you want. Do look into those Z brackets though - they were fairly cheap (certainly compared to those rip off big plastic mounting sets) thugh you need to not get your ropes caught at the corners (could be negaed if z brackets fitted right at the ends).

 

I'm going to get another two of those panels then :)

I think the panels are 3mm thick so we're looking at 12mm as opposed to 25-30mm .. ish? Good point about the metal brackets snagging the ropes. Plenty of nylon/ABS brackets out there so must be something similar to the norm but lower. With regards to durability, if the panels were knocked or had something (not too heavy) dropped on them, would the Mono (glass?) be more susceptible to damage than the poly stick on's? I must fight this OCD! ?

12 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Not if you flex them afterwards like what's his name did on that podcast cruising the cut.

 

Monocrystalline is made from a single crystal which makes then more fragile than the multi crystal ones.   Ofcourse the connections between the cells is probably more the issue on cheaper panels rather than the cell itself.

sounding like 6 of one and half dozen of the other to me! ?

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1 minute ago, Markinaboat said:

I think the panels are 3mm thick so we're looking at 12mm as opposed to 25-30mm .. ish? Good point about the metal brackets snagging the ropes. Plenty of nylon/ABS brackets out there so must be something similar to the norm but lower. With regards to durability, if the panels were knocked or had something (not too heavy) dropped on them, would the Mono (glass?) be more susceptible to damage than the poly stick on's? I must fight this OCD! ?

Mono/Poly is the type of cell, both can be in a flexible panel or rigid glass panel.   Poly are square shaped cells usually with a hint of blue, Mono looks to have the corners cut off and more black and uniformed.

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I can't see that 12mm instead of 30mm is going to make that much aesthetic improvement - but to each their own. Don't forget the sides will appear a little more raised due to the curve of the roof (unless you can slightly bend your ply panels by perhaps putting something under them in the middle and strongly screwing down the edges).

Nowadays - is there very much difference in (low light) o/p of mono/poly?

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I see no rational in purchasing semi flexible panels with the intention of fixing them to a rigid board. 

I can understand though that thinking aloud can assist in clarifying ones own thoughts I personally tend not to publish them though(bother I just have) 

Edited by reg
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10 minutes ago, Johny London said:

is there very much difference in (low light) o/p of mono/poly?

I don't know as unless you have them side by side and measure the output under the same conditions its all guess-work.

 

I have 'low-light' panels which supposedly work better in Northern latitudes as they are designed for a lower incidence angle of light hitting them and therefore (allegedly) you get a longer 'day' and a longer 'season' when the Sun is lower in the sky, and, they have better shade tolerance as only the individual cell is affected by shade rather than a large part of the panel.

 

They were some that Bimble got hold of and they cost (from memory) £99 for 170w panels.

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56 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Mono/Poly is the type of cell, both can be in a flexible panel or rigid glass panel.   Poly are square shaped cells usually with a hint of blue, Mono looks to have the corners cut off and more black and uniformed.

I do know that but have been warned off Mono if doubling up two for 24v, something to do with if a cell/s fail in one panel can overload/damage the other? So, will likely be one 250-300w Mono or one to two if Poly.

42 minutes ago, Johny London said:

I can't see that 12mm instead of 30mm is going to make that much aesthetic improvement - but to each their own. Don't forget the sides will appear a little more raised due to the curve of the roof (unless you can slightly bend your ply panels by perhaps putting something under them in the middle and strongly screwing down the edges).

Nowadays - is there very much difference in (low light) o/p of mono/poly?

"unless you can slightly bend your ply panels by perhaps putting something under them in the middle and strongly screwing down the edges" Good point! Maybe shaped, varnished hardwood blocks epoxied down then screw directly through panel/ply. 

Edited by Markinaboat
getting old?
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37 minutes ago, reg said:

I see no rational in purchasing semi flexible panels with the intention of fixing them to a rigid board. 

I can understand though that thinking aloud can assist in clarifying ones own thoughts I personally tend not to publish them though(bother I just have) 

? I think it COULD look tidier if executed well.

27 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I don't know as unless you have them side by side and measure the output under the same conditions its all guess-work.

 

I have 'low-light' panels which supposedly work better in Northern latitudes as they are designed for a lower incidence angle of light hitting them and therefore (allegedly) you get a longer 'day' and a longer 'season' when the Sun is lower in the sky, and, they have better shade tolerance as only the individual cell is affected by shade rather than a large part of the panel.

 

They were some that Bimble got hold of and they cost (from memory) £99 for 170w panels.

So were these Amorphous or Poly Alan? I looked at Bimble's site but the majority of their stock appears to be used.

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3 minutes ago, Markinaboat said:

So were these Amorphous or Poly Alan? I looked at Bimble's site but the majority of their stock appears to be used.

I cannot remember - it was a couple of years (or maybe even three years) ago.

They are 'black' and you cannot really see the cell structure like you can with most panels.

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On 24/05/2018 at 16:12, Markinaboat said:

Thanks, thought as much. My other concern is as and when I need to paint the roof, don;t want rust building up underneath. I' sure I read somewhere once about adhesive that can be cut through with wire, bit like a cheese cutter? They offer this as an option and is flexible...

 

Bostik 360

I fitted Unisolars and Lensun flexis last year. Instead of gluing the whole lot down, I got some motorway grade magnetic adhesive sheets, which I stuck to the underside (this also adds a bit of padding for walking on). The magnetic sheets hold the panels in position. I then used outdoor silicon to seal the edges, which can be easily cut and removed if a panel fails/ I want to paint the deck.

I have no need to walk on them regularly. If I did I would trust the Unisolars over the Lensuns.

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10 minutes ago, Bricksh said:

I fitted Unisolars and Lensun flexis last year. Instead of gluing the whole lot down, I got some motorway grade magnetic adhesive sheets, which I stuck to the underside (this also adds a bit of padding for walking on). The magnetic sheets hold the panels in position. I then used outdoor silicon to seal the edges, which can be easily cut and removed if a panel fails/ I want to paint the deck.

I have no need to walk on them regularly. If I did I would trust the Unisolars over the Lensuns.

Interesting, can see the benefits of magnetic sheet assuming magnets don't interfere with the workings of the solar panels. Looked up the Unisolar and Lensuns and I think they're Amorphous so woild need to cover too much of the roof to get 300W with a reasonable amps at 24v

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13 hours ago, Markinaboat said:

Interesting, can see the benefits of magnetic sheet assuming magnets don't interfere with the workings of the solar panels. Looked up the Unisolar and Lensuns and I think they're Amorphous so woild need to cover too much of the roof to get 300W with a reasonable amps at 24v

????

300 Watts worth of panels of any sort/type will deliver the same number of amps at any voltage from any given controller so I don't understand teh thinking behind the red part. I accept some types of panels can be smaller for the same wattage but not that they will deliver a different number of amps in any given circumstance.

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