Fitting an engineered hardwood floor?

[piedaterre]

Hi,

 

I've just bought my first boat and I'm looking to update the interior by changing the floor.  It's only a 23.5ft boat so not a massive area to cover.

 

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=562933

 

I'm wanting a wooden floor and I've heard an engineered wooden floor is probably the best way to go.  There's plenty of nice stuff around for £35 per sq meter so I reckon £150 should cover it.

 

What do you reckon the labour time / cost for ripping up the existing carpet and laminate and fitting the new floor might be, and would you have any recommendations around the Nantwich area?  The boat's due to be moored in Barbridge.

 

Also, is it wise to add a layer of ply or something else under the new floor?

 

Thanks,

 

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, piedaterre said:

is it wise to add a layer of ply or something else under the new floor?

There should already be a floor of (hopefully) ply down there under the existing carpet/laminate. If it’s in good condition (not wet or rotting) then you don’t need anything else. If it isn’t in good condition then the rotten area will need to be replaced. 

[Onewheeler]

53 minutes ago, piedaterre said:

What do you reckon the labour time / cost for ripping up the existing carpet and laminate and fitting the new floor might be,

 

It took me about a day to lay a new floor on top of the existing ply in our 15 m boat. Then had to take out some ballast as it adds significantly to the weight! Still waiting to finish fitting the trim around the edge.

[piedaterre]

Thanks.  So £150-200 as a day rate should cover it for me then.

 

Given the size difference in boats and less flooring space to cover in mine, I don't know whether ballast will have to be removed.  I'll take advice from whoever I get to fit it.

 

[cuthound]

Engineered wooden floors are made from MDF which will swell if it gets wet.

 

I would get a real wooden floor if you want it to last, or cover the ply floor with something like Karndean lino or planks. http://www.karndean.com/en-gb/floors

[Bee]

For what its worth I'd use cheap carpet and replace it every couple or three years or rugs, fitting laminate can be fiddly and its cold, hard and boring when down - but then so am I.

[nb Innisfree]

Good engineered floors are backed with ply. We are looking around for our open plan house conversion and £50 - 90 inc.per metre seems to be the range for top quality + £30 Inc.p.m for fitting. 

Fitting includes damp test and preparation. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by nb Innisfree

[W+T]

6 hours ago, piedaterre said:

Hi,

 

I've just bought my first boat and I'm looking to update the interior by changing the floor.  It's only a 23.5ft boat so not a massive area to cover.

 

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=562933

 

I'm wanting a wooden floor and I've heard an engineered wooden floor is probably the best way to go.  There's plenty of nice stuff around for £35 per sq meter so I reckon £150 should cover it.

 

What do you reckon the labour time / cost for ripping up the existing carpet and laminate and fitting the new floor might be, and would you have any recommendations around the Nantwich area?  The boat's due to be moored in Barbridge.

 

Also, is it wise to add a layer of ply or something else under the new floor?

 

Thanks,

 

 

I can recommend me

 

I reckon a days work to rip out and lay new one.

 

PM me if interested. 

 

Also see my face book link page if your on it at the bottom to see what i do..

 

Cheers

 

Wayne

Edited May 24, 2018 by W+T

[Onewheeler]

3 hours ago, cuthound said:

Engineered wooden floors are made from MDF which will swell if it gets wet.

 

Our laminate floor (B&Q cheapest) went in ten years ago and is still immaculate, even next to the shower and the kitchen sink, despite having wet feet, mops and so on thrown at it. How much water do you get inside your boat?

[cuthound]

10 hours ago, Onewheeler said:

Our laminate floor (B&Q cheapest) went in ten years ago and is still immaculate, even next to the shower and the kitchen sink, despite having wet feet, mops and so on thrown at it. How much water do you get inside your boat?

 

My boat came witn a cherrywood floor. Attractive but soft, so easy marked by dropping things on it.

 

My son had a B&Q laminate floor in his kitchen. A slow leak from the washing machine hose ruined it. It swelled up and went soft.

 

I try to keep the water outside of my boat. ?

[Murflynn]

14 hours ago, cuthound said:

Engineered wooden floors are made from MDF which will swell if it gets wet.

 

I would get a real wooden floor if you want it to last, or cover the ply floor with something like Karndean lino or planks. http://www.karndean.com/en-gb/floors

nonsense. ..... modern engineered wood floors comprise a thick hardwood veneer on good quality plywood backing.  The best ones are considered better than solid wood because they don't expand or warp like solid wood.   We have just replaced all the downstairs floors in our house, paying about £35/sq.m. for 18mm engineered hardwood which includes a 5mm oak veneer on birch plywood backing.  

Edited May 25, 2018 by Murflynn

[blackrose]

On 25/05/2018 at 08:43, Murflynn said:

nonsense. ..... modern engineered wood floors comprise a thick hardwood veneer on good quality plywood backing.  The best ones are considered better than solid wood because they don't expand or warp like solid wood.   We have just replaced all the downstairs floors in our house, paying about £35/sq.m. for 18mm engineered hardwood which includes a 5mm oak veneer on birch plywood backing.  

That's right, a good quality engineered wood floor will be much more dimensionally stable than solid wood and much more suitable for below ground level applications including basements, boats or other places that might be subject to temperature and humidity fluctuations. 

On 24/05/2018 at 21:40, Onewheeler said:

Our laminate floor (B&Q cheapest) went in ten years ago and is still immaculate, even next to the shower and the kitchen sink, despite having wet feet, mops and so on thrown at it. How much water do you get inside your boat?

Me too. I've got B&Q laminate in my kitchen and bathroom and 13 years on it's still fine. I think it's on the green water resistant MDF. It won't like being submerged or properly soaked for an extended period but I've had a few leaks and it can certainly tolerate getting wet for a while. 

 

Edited May 26, 2018 by blackrose

[piedaterre]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I'd read a fair bit about floors and it looked like engineered wood was the way to go.  By the looks of the above that's right.

 

The boat's moored in Great Haywood, Staffs, so if anyone can come recommended around that area I'd appreciate it..

 

 

On 24/05/2018 at 18:36, W+T said:

 

I can recommend me

 

I reckon a days work to rip out and lay new one.

 

PM me if interested. 

 

Also see my face book link page if your on it at the bottom to see what i do..

 

Cheers

 

Wayne

Hi,

 

It's in Great Haywood, Staffs, if you'd look at travelling there?

[Mikexx]

On 25/05/2018 at 08:43, Murflynn said:

nonsense. ..... modern engineered wood floors comprise a thick hardwood veneer on good quality plywood backing.  The best ones are considered better than solid wood because they don't expand or warp like solid wood.   We have just replaced all the downstairs floors in our house, paying about £35/sq.m. for 18mm engineered hardwood which includes a 5mm oak veneer on birch plywood backing.  

 

I've seen solid wood used and it expanded causing ruckling.  The warp from the damp underside was also noticeable.

 

I would only choose an engineered wood floor suitable for wet conditions.

[70liveaboard]

I don't agree regards engineered doesn't warp.. It does (if it gets damp/wet), all ply warps if not fastened often and securely.

Ply is obviously the best sheet material to use really for inside boats, but you have to understand that there are drawbacks to it. The drawbacks in this case is that you tend not to be able to fasten it down to the sub-floor without it being visible. Secret nailing might be an option, although not sure, you would have to look at the joint method it uses.

This applies to Sheathing (good one side) ply or WBP. WBP will be far more stable than sheathing, but they still both warp.

 

The types are; solid wood, engineered and then mdf, that's about it when it comes to floors, in that catagory. A hardwood floor (solid wood) is the best option, however the cost is very high. Vinyl is a good option, although many don't like it, but the way it has come on over the years is pretty impressive.

 

When it comes to your own boat, then really its up to the owner, if your happy putting mdf down, because you feel that you can replace it quickly yourself at a reasonable cost, then fine, use that. A builder/boatfitter shouldn't use mdf anywhere in a boat, too unreliable.

Engineered is good, but will have to be fastened like a normal ply sheet, only mini sheets.. Solid is what a builder might go for, as the 'come back' on such floors will be very low, as they are fairly stable and reliable.

 

Soft flooring is often fine, including Flotex, which has some pretty bad designs but can appeal to some people. Carpet is cheap and easy nowadays. Carpet/Vinyl is probably most used in mid range.

Its owner choice really, what do you feel comfy with and how often do you mind replacing it.

 

Note: A fairly nice option might be 4 or 6mm veneered ply (provided you have a good subfloor), as you can fasten that reasonably well (glue it also) and it looks very nice when varnished (floor varnish or deck varnish, you need a hard finish), but obviously no lines.. Joints can be strapped with some nice 'fine' hardwood, provided your not likely to have someone trip much.. Or of course you could recess the straps, but you'll have to be fairly good to achieve a nice finish.

Edited May 27, 2018 by 70liveaboard

[W+T]

22 hours ago, piedaterre said:

Thanks for the replies.

 

I'd read a fair bit about floors and it looked like engineered wood was the way to go.  By the looks of the above that's right.

 

The boat's moored in Great Haywood, Staffs, so if anyone can come recommended around that area I'd appreciate it..

 

 

Hi,

 

It's in Great Haywood, Staffs, if you'd look at travelling there?

That is fine with me, I have been going all over the country as far as Essex recently. And I have a few jobs on down Staff`s , I should of been down there tomorrow at Aston Marina but parts did not arrive in time. Also a job in Great Haywood itself next month. 

 

I am going down Bath next weekend after I pop to Aston Marina so if you want I can pop in to see you after Aston to see what you need doing and give you a price.

 

Wayne

 

[Murflynn]

6 hours ago, 70liveaboard said:

I don't agree regards engineered doesn't warp.. It does (if it gets damp/wet), all ply warps if not fastened often and securely.

Ply is obviously the best sheet material to use really for inside boats, but you have to understand that there are drawbacks to it. The drawbacks in this case is that you tend not to be able to fasten it down to the sub-floor without it being visible. Secret nailing might be an option, although not sure, you would have to look at the joint method it uses.

 

eh?

properly installed engineered wood comprises planks with tongue and groove joints which should be secret 'nailed' (my fitter used very thin stainless screws with an almost imperceptible head which has a tiny hex drive - they are driven into the exposed tongue so the head is buried).  If you want you can also glue down with a special flooring adhesive which also forms a damp-proof membrane when it cures.

[70liveaboard]

17 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

eh?

properly installed engineered wood comprises planks with tongue and groove joints which should be secret 'nailed' (my fitter used very thin stainless screws with an almost imperceptible head which has a tiny hex drive - they are driven into the exposed tongue so the head is buried).  If you want you can also glue down with a special flooring adhesive which also forms a damp-proof membrane when it cures.

I did go on to say that you may be able to secret nail it and yes I do know its t&g. I was speaking more regards the wood type, not the fitting, although as with any ply based, or ply itself in sheet form, it needs fastening often and securely. I don't fit flooring so wouldn't know how they secure it, but I just know it needs securing.

Its nice your fitter did a fine job.

 

[WotEver]

42 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

my fitter used very thin stainless screws with an almost imperceptible head which has a tiny hex drive - they are driven into the exposed tongue so the head is buried

Could it have been these?  I used them recently in conjunction with a jig to build some decking and they do a lovely ‘invisible’ job. https://www.dm-tools.co.uk/mobile/product.php?site=froogle&sn=KRG298314&google=?gclid=CjwKCAjwrqnYBRB-EiwAthnBFn8inOkZJlMJhgHkXD_n1uN9xDGUH0IYI4VjUj7_C2l4KRdGslwtkxoC2psQAvD_BwE

[jddevel]

Why fix to a sub-floor? Apart from using adhesive on to a firmly fixed marine grade minimum 18mm ply for tiles why not let the floor "float" on a sub-floor thus allowing for expansion and contraction. 

[Murflynn]

10 hours ago, WotEver said:

Could it have been these?  I used them recently in conjunction with a jig to build some decking and they do a lovely ‘invisible’ job. https://www.dm-tools.co.uk/mobile/product.php?site=froogle&sn=KRG298314&google=?gclid=CjwKCAjwrqnYBRB-EiwAthnBFn8inOkZJlMJhgHkXD_n1uN9xDGUH0IYI4VjUj7_C2l4KRdGslwtkxoC2psQAvD_BwE

no.

 

these:

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/tongue-tite-screws-3-5-x-45mm-200-pack/85991?tc=HT5&ds_kid=92700023382265908&ds_rl=1249481&ds_rl=1245250&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxI7b-POn2wIVqLztCh1o5gFNEAQYASABEgLe0fD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CNuV8Pzzp9sCFU0j0wodNq8A8A

[WotEver]

17 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

no.

 

these:

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/tongue-tite-screws-3-5-x-45mm-200-pack/85991?tc=HT5&ds_kid=92700023382265908&ds_rl=1249481&ds_rl=1245250&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxI7b-POn2wIVqLztCh1o5gFNEAQYASABEgLe0fD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CNuV8Pzzp9sCFU0j0wodNq8A8A

They make more sense with their little csk on the head.

[W+T]

Just my 2 pence then

 

HDF Engineered on boats would be best if there is concern for damp/moisture , solid wood is fine but can/will cup/swell etc etc with moisture and drying out.  

 

Fixing is not needed with engineered flooring but is on solid wood. 

 

All of these types of flooring can warp with moisture but even engineered can last years and years in damp areas.  I have laid a fair few engineered flooring`s in bathrooms inc my own and that being the basic cheap non moisture rated flooring and is still good after 8 years. 

 

 

[blackrose]

22 hours ago, 70liveaboard said:

I don't agree regards engineered doesn't warp.. It does (if it gets damp/wet), all ply warps if not fastened often and securely.

Ply is obviously the best sheet material to use really for inside boats, but you have to understand that there are drawbacks to it. The drawbacks in this case is that you tend not to be able to fasten it down to the sub-floor without it being visible. Secret nailing might be an option, although not sure, you would have to look at the joint method it uses.

This applies to Sheathing (good one side) ply or WBP. WBP will be far more stable than sheathing, but they still both warp.

 

The types are; solid wood, engineered and then mdf, that's about it when it comes to floors, in that catagory. A hardwood floor (solid wood) is the best option, however the cost is very high. Vinyl is a good option, although many don't like it, but the way it has come on over the years is pretty impressive.

 

 

I read that solid wood floors shouldn't be installed below ground level. Presumably that means below water level too?

 

Plenty of people have floating wood floors on boats, but anyway, I'd have thought that a solid wood floor would be subject to warping more than engineered wood floor if it gets wet. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by blackrose

[Murflynn]

40 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I read that solid wood floors shouldn't be installed below ground level. Presumably that means below water level too?

 

Plenty of people have floating wood floors on boats, but anyway, I'd have thought that a solid wood floor would be subject to warping more than engineered wood floor if it gets wet. 

no, I wouldn't recommend fitting wooden floors underwater, but it is reassuring to know that wooden floors on boats float (rather than sink).

 

 

.............................  sorry Mike, couldn't resist.   ..................................     coat.