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Borrowing and anchor


blythecooper

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I'll be on the Thames for a few days on my journey from Aldermaston to Maghull, and am looking at anchors.. It seems a little crazy that I may never use it again. Is borrowing an anchor something that people do? Or renting from a hire company maybe? Or should I just cough up and think of it as useful ballast in my bow hatch?

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6 minutes ago, blythecooper said:

I'll be on the Thames for a few days on my journey from Aldermaston to Maghull, and am looking at anchors.. It seems a little crazy that I may never use it again. Is borrowing an anchor something that people do? Or renting from a hire company maybe? Or should I just cough up and think of it as useful ballast in my bow hatch?

My boat, bought 3 years ago, came with an anchor but no chain or rope. For 2 years we didn't go near a river but last summer we decided to give the Thames a go so I got properly kitted out even though it was possibly a one-off.

 

I'm glad I did.

 

We loved it so much that we're going back this summer and next year I may try other rivers. The Nene, Soar or Trent maybe.

Edited by Lily Rose
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40 minutes ago, blythecooper said:

I'll be on the Thames for a few days on my journey from Aldermaston to Maghull, and am looking at anchors.. It seems a little crazy that I may never use it again. Is borrowing an anchor something that people do? Or renting from a hire company maybe? Or should I just cough up and think of it as useful ballast in my bow hatch?

Perhaps you already know, but I have a feeling that it is mandatory for an anchor to be carried when cruising on some rivers. Having one opens up the options.

It's a bit like lifebelts.

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16 hours ago, blythecooper said:

I'll be on the Thames for a few days on my journey from Aldermaston to Maghull, and am looking at anchors.. It seems a little crazy that I may never use it again. Is borrowing an anchor something that people do? Or renting from a hire company maybe? Or should I just cough up and think of it as useful ballast in my bow hatch?

 

A 56lb Avery scale weight will be easier and cheaper to come by. Typically about £20.

 

Tie it to a nice long piece of rope and it will probably every bit as effective as a £150 anchor.

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I would look at the river levels and at the forecast just before you set out onto the Thames.

 

If all is good, then I wouldn't bother with a large anchor. The Thames right now is hardly moving.

 

I carry a small collapsible grappling anchor to chuck into the bushes.

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3 minutes ago, billS said:

I would look at the river levels and at the forecast just before you set out onto the Thames.

 

If all is good, then I wouldn't bother with a large anchor. The Thames right now is hardly moving.

 

I carry a small collapsible grappling anchor to chuck into the bushes.

 

Good point, I do exactly the same.

 

And depending on whether I was travelling up or downstream at the time, I would tie it to either my bow tee stud or a stern dolly so as to arrest the boat without it having to turn through 180 degrees in the unlikely event of it being deployed. 

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2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

A 56lb Avery scale weight will be easier and cheaper to come by. Typically about £20.

 

Tie it to a nice long piece of rope and it will probably every bit as effective as a £150 anchor.

A couple of these on board are useful for moving side-to-side to trim the boat for any listing.

....... and a long time ago, in a distant younger world, with one hand, I could lift one over my head at arms length....

 

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3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

A 56lb Avery scale weight will be easier and cheaper to come by. Typically about £20.

 

Tie it to a nice long piece of rope and it will probably every bit as effective as a £150 anchor.

Make excellent mud weights should you want to moor mid-channel to avoid the attentions of the rope-cutting Neds

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3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

A 56lb Avery scale weight will be easier and cheaper to come by. Typically about £20.

 

Tie it to a nice long piece of rope and it will probably every bit as effective as a £150 anchor.

Surely there is a risk of this dragging on a silty base whereas a Danforth type anchor is designed to "dig in".

55 minutes ago, Horace42 said:

A couple of these on board are useful for moving side-to-side to trim the boat for any listing.

....... and a long time ago, in a distant younger world, with one hand, I could lift one over my head at arms length....

 

Absolutely, I have 5 of them for adjusting trim.

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4 minutes ago, rgreg said:

Danforth type anchor is designed to "dig in".

You would have thought so, unfortunately practice is different to theory.

Buy a proper anchor - not one that conveniently folds up to go in your locker and is just there to give you a false sense of security.

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3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You would have thought so, unfortunately practice is different to theory.

Buy a proper anchor - not one that conveniently folds up to go in your locker and is just there to give you a false sense of security.

As a regular user of the Ribble Link it's the Danforth that I rely on and is for most others I know. Fortunately, I've never had to deploy it to test it, and don't know anyone who has, but is there an issue with them?

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33 minutes ago, rgreg said:

As a regular user of the Ribble Link it's the Danforth that I rely on and is for most others I know. Fortunately, I've never had to deploy it to test it, and don't know anyone who has, but is there an issue with them?

Their performance is sadly lacking in many 'river bottoms' they are a very old design of anchor and a 15kg (the typical size on a NB) was never designed to hold a '20 tonne boat' in an emergency situation. Inland waterways boaters say "well I cannot lift a 30kg anchor" so its no use having one. ..............................................

 

A modern designed anchor of 6-8kgs will outperform a Danforth easily - but the majoritty of Inland waterways users are loathe to spend several £100s for the 'one time on a river'.

It is simply 'insurance' but when heading over the weir on the River Trent is not the time to find out your £75 anchor does not 'work'.

 

There are a number of posts on the subject (many of them mine) Do a search.

 

Its your boat, your money, your life - May I just refer you to the NB that was swept UNDER the dolphins and over a weir on the Trent - wife was catapulted off the boat, husband grabbed her hand but could either let go of her and stop the engine, or keep hold of her and she gets pulled into the prop,

I've posted the full story is here (a couple of times).

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37 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Their performance is sadly lacking in many 'river bottoms' they are a very old design of anchor and a 15kg (the typical size on a NB) was never designed to hold a '20 tonne boat' in an emergency situation. Inland waterways boaters say "well I cannot lift a 30kg anchor" so its no use having one. ..............................................

 

A modern designed anchor of 6-8kgs will outperform a Danforth easily - but the majoritty of Inland waterways users are loathe to spend several £100s for the 'one time on a river'.

It is simply 'insurance' but when heading over the weir on the River Trent is not the time to find out your £75 anchor does not 'work'.

 

There are a number of posts on the subject (many of them mine) Do a search.

 

Its your boat, your money, your life - May I just refer you to the NB that was swept UNDER the dolphins and over a weir on the Trent - wife was catapulted off the boat, husband grabbed her hand but could either let go of her and stop the engine, or keep hold of her and she gets pulled into the prop,

I've posted the full story is here (a couple of times).

Interesting. My question wasn't doubting or contradicting you; I have always been led to believe, as many other regular tidal users I know, that ideally 20kg "Danforth Type" for a 57ft Narrow was the standard, therefore interested to know why this is not the case. 

Edited to add that I'm not needing any reminders of the importance of anchors as you seem keen to convince me, as a regular tidal user I'm well aware of the risks. My question was specifically relating to the issues with the Danforth anchor that I, and I'm sure many others, am not aware of.

Edited by rgreg
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1 hour ago, rgreg said:

Surely there is a risk of this dragging on a silty base whereas a Danforth type anchor is designed to "dig in".

And why would that matter, in the 0.5mph torrent that is the Thames at the moment?

44 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It is simply 'insurance' but when heading over the weir on the River Trent is not the time to find out your £75 anchor does not 'work'.

 

This seems faintly unlikely given the OP is asking about the Thames between Reading and Oxford. 

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53 minutes ago, rgreg said:

Interesting. My question wasn't doubting or contradicting you; I have always been led to believe, as many other regular tidal users I know, that ideally 20kg "Danforth Type" for a 57ft Narrow was the standard, therefore interested to know why this is not the case. 

Edited to add that I'm not needing any reminders of the importance of anchors as you seem keen to convince me, as a regular tidal user I'm well aware of the risks. My question was specifically relating to the issues with the Danforth anchor that I, and I'm sure many others, am not aware of.

As you know there are many designs of anchors with varying degrees of efficiency, mainly dependant upon the type of bottom. I think it is very easy to get carried away with academic analysis of the different anchor types, and IMHO there is nothing wrong with the Danforth. What really counts is the  proper and timely deployment of the anchor, and I suspect that most anchoring issues are not caused by the type of anchor but rather the unfamiliarity of how to use it, especially in the very real stress of an incident, and often the lack of "thinking time".

 

Howard

Edited by howardang
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56 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Their performance is sadly lacking in many 'river bottoms' they are a very old design of anchor and a 15kg (the typical size on a NB) was never designed to hold a '20 tonne boat' in an emergency situation. Inland waterways boaters say "well I cannot lift a 30kg anchor" so its no use having one. ..............................................

 

A modern designed anchor of 6-8kgs will outperform a Danforth easily - but the majoritty of Inland waterways users are loathe to spend several £100s for the 'one time on a river'.

It is simply 'insurance' but when heading over the weir on the River Trent is not the time to find out your £75 anchor does not 'work'.

 

There are a number of posts on the subject (many of them mine) Do a search.

 

Its your boat, your money, your life - May I just refer you to the NB that was swept UNDER the dolphins and over a weir on the Trent - wife was catapulted off the boat, husband grabbed her hand but could either let go of her and stop the engine, or keep hold of her and she gets pulled into the prop,

I've posted the full story is here (a couple of times).

"...Its your boat, your money, your life..." to quote you. But shouldn't this include 'your decision' - unless it is mandatory.

But from a naive angle on my part, are anchors used on river as a matter of routine mooring - or is it a safety issue in emergencies?

....and to save looking up the story of the boat swept under the weir - what happened to the wife and boat - and the husband come to that ?

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4 minutes ago, howardang said:

As you know there are many designs of anchors with varying degrees of efficiency, mainly dependant upon the type of bottom. I think it is very easy to get carried away with academic analysis of the different anchor types, and IMHO there is nothing wrong with the Danforth. What really counts is their  proper and timely deployment and I suspect that most anchoring issues are not caused by the type of anchor but rather the unfamiliarity of how to use it, especially in the very real stress of an incident and often the lack of "thinking time".

 

Howard

Hopefully you are right, or the considerable number of Danforth type users are going to be very disappointed should that dreaded moment arrive! 

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I speak theoretically and, fortunately, not from experience but my understanding is that having 5 metres of chain attached to the anchor to ensure the correct angle for digging in when it hits the bottom is as significant a fact as any ....... possible even what actual type the anchor is.

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3 minutes ago, Up-Side-Down said:

I speak theoretically and, fortunately, not from experience but my understanding is that having 5 metres of chain attached to the anchor to ensure the correct angle for digging in when it hits the bottom is as significant a fact as any ....... possible even what actual type the anchor is.

Dead right!...and a close-link chain selected for weight, not strength. And also a long rope.

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22 minutes ago, rgreg said:

Hopefully you are right, or the considerable number of Danforth type users are going to be very disappointed should that dreaded moment arrive! 

I can only speak as I find. I have used a variety of anchors over the years, small and not so small, without any mishaps. Familiarity and confidence in the use of the equipment, coupled with a decent amount of chain, taking into account the type of holding ground, goes a long way to keep you out of trouble.

 

Howard

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Horace42 said:

Dead right!...and a close-link chain selected for weight, not strength. And also a long rope.

Yep, chain for the weight, although if you take 10mm chain for a 15 ton boat and 12mm chain for a 20 ton boat you'd be in the right area as regards strength. It is suggested that the total length of warp (rope) and chain together should be at least 4 x the maximum depth of water you expect to anchor in. So for boats coming down the tidal River Clyde, which has a maximum channel depth a tad over 8m, I'm loaning out a big Danforth anchor together with 5m of chain and 27m + of warp.

Edited by Up-Side-Down
Dodgy syntax!
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