BMC 1.8 and gearbox oil, prop not engaging properly

[Boater Sam]

The installation  ( I am using the word loosely, more like they were thrown in ) of the rubber fuel and other pipes is alarming. There are all sorts of problems just waiting to happen, needs a good dose of sorting.

[alan_fincher]

1 hour ago, Boater Sam said:

The installation  ( I am using the word loosely, more like they were thrown in ) of the rubber fuel and other pipes is alarming. There are all sorts of problems just waiting to happen, needs a good dose of sorting.

Whilst agreeing it is not great, what specifically do you see as the issues with the flexible fuel lines?

It's hard to see, and the video somewhat shaky, but they look like the correct pre-made article, and probably marked up as such to me?

The only thing I would say is that the one between filter and fuel pump needs tying back in some way to stop it chafing on the edge of the skin tank.

[Tony Brooks]

I have been in touch with the OP about visiting the boat to help. He has told me who did the work and assures me it was NOT Calcutt. Calcutt have offered to look at it when he gets there.

[RLWP]

Wrong colour for Calcutt

[Boater Sam]

There are hoses lying across other hoses, they will chaff. 

The BMC 1.8D engine goes through a vibration period between 800 and 875 rpm when unsecured rubber or copper lines will start to flex and vibrate in sympathy. Copper lines need to be secured so that metal fatigue does not set in.

Rubber lines, even though they are the proper material and construction are prone to wearing though where they are allowed to rub on either metal or other rubber parts.

Is it really a Lamborghini engine or a Lombardini?

 

Wrong colour for anybody's engine!

Edited May 25, 2018 by Boater Sam

[Tony Brooks]

19 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Wrong colour for Calcutt

Yes but another contributor implied it was.

[alan_fincher]

22 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Wrong colour for Calcutt

None-the-less the pictures show a Calcutt plate on the engine, so if they are not the suppliers of it after this reconditioning, it is surely an engine they have been involved in in the past.

I note Tony didn't say they had not supplied it, only that they did not fit it, but am not sure I should be reading anything into that.

If you think all Calcutt supplied engines are green, have a look at their web page!

EDIT:

Just to add there are two fuel filters - one fixed to the engine, and one fixed to the boat - in any reference I made, I mean the one fixed to the boat.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by alan_fincher

[Robbo]

33 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Wrong colour for anybody's engine!

Pontiac engines were light blue pre early 70's

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Robbo

[Tony Brooks]

17 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

None-the-less the pictures show a Calcutt plate on the engine, so if they are not the suppliers of it after this reconditioning, it is surely an engine they have been involved in in the past.

I note Tony didn't say they had not supplied it, only that they did not fit it, but am not sure I should be reading anything into that.

If you think all Calcutt supplied engines are green, have a look at their web page!

EDIT:

Just to add there are two fuel filters - one fixed to the engine, and one fixed to the boat - in any reference I made, I mean the one fixed to the boat.

 

 

 

I have no knowledge about who actually supplied the engine and felt it was not wise to allow the thought it was Calcutt who did the work when it was not.

 

 

[Poppin]

The mystery of the leaky gearbox has returned. It must have gone a good 10-12 days without a noticeable drop in oil levels. The boat yard's trainee has come and grossly overfilled it, and tightened some connections. During the 2 week period since, I had a visit from Tony B who also noted the high oil levels. I also took the boat to Calcutt and oil levels were fine at the time.

 

Now for some reason it is draining again. I filled it this morning after checking, and now after 6 hours of cruising I have checked again and it's almost empty. None of the connections seem loose, though the oil cooler pipe was slightly oily at the nut so with some force I managed to tighttten a bit more. Laying paper underneath I plan to do in a couple of days.

 

What on earth issue going on? Could vibrations from the engine be making things loose repeatedly? 

 

My insurance company have advised they will cover legal costs of pursuing the boat yard, but in the meantime I must solve this leak issue. 

 

Edit: could oil be seeping through one of the hoses, despite no actual crack? I have insssulated them all now to prevent further rubbing but they are oily 

Edited June 8, 2018 by Poppin

[RLWP]

8 minutes ago, Poppin said:

Could vibrations from the engine be making things loose repeatedly? YES

 

Edit: could oil be seeping through one of the hoses, despite no actual crack? I have insssulated them all now to prevent further rubbing but they are oily POSSIBLY

You must be losing a lot of oil, I'm really surprised you can't find where it has gone

 

I can't remember if we asked this, what sort of cooling system does the engine have - skin tank or raw water

 

Richard

[Tony Brooks]

Skin tank with gearbox oil cooler, no raw water involved.

 

I think the box had about twice the oil in it than it should.

 

Unless the OP has cleaned the engine tray and put clean paper under the engine to help locate any leaks we will still be guessing.

 

I am far from happy with the clean oil I found on the bottom of the flywheel housing. That area needs cleaning and then rechecking over the next few days running.

[RLWP]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

I am far from happy with the clean oil I found on the bottom of the flywheel housing. That area needs cleaning and then rechecking over the next few days running.

Ahh... Yes, that would explain it

 

Out of interest, no oil in the cooling water, Tony?

 

Richard

[Tony Brooks]

9 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Ahh... Yes, that would explain it

 

Out of interest, no oil in the cooling water, Tony?

 

Richard

I don't think I checked. I found the clean oil and the overfull gearbox. There was also clean oil on the port side rear engine mount. I advised the OP to clean the engine drip tray and the oil on the mount and look for leaks.

 

Poppin - stick your finger in the header tank. If it comes out with oil on it then let us know.

[Poppin]

16 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I don't think I checked. I found the clean oil and the overfull gearbox. There was also clean oil on the port side rear engine mount. I advised the OP to clean the engine drip tray and the oil on the mount and look for leaks.

 

Poppin - stick your finger in the header tank. If it comes out with oil on it then let us know.

Checked the header tank, just water. I believed the oil on the rear engine mount (and possibly the housing) to be the mess made by the trainee when he overfilled the oil. He had no funnel or rags, it went everywhere. 

 

I presumed this was correct since the oil levels were holding steady and the engine mount has had no oil on it since I wiped it clean.  

 

If the oil on the housing indicates the problem, is the problem inside the housing itself? Sounds like a big job to fix

Edited June 8, 2018 by Poppin

[RLWP]

Unless your gearbox is miraculously passing oil out through a wormhole in space, it has to be leaking out somewhere. Tony pointed out the oil on the bottom of the flywheel housing, which would suggest an oil seal has failed

 

Until you clean up properly under the engine, you're not going to learn much

 

Richard

[Poppin]

I've been booked up with work, but plan to clean up under the engine at first opportunity (Monday). Once clean, should I just put some standard paper towels underneath and run the prop for a bit?  (Since the oil only seems to drain when on the move).

 

What I don't understand is, if a seal has failed inside the housing, how will this help locate the problem? If it just drips out, runs along the casing and goes everywhere? Surely it will end up in a puddle regardless.

 

Thanks for offering so much help to a clueless person. This whole experience has been very disappointing indeed. The boat yard who supplied the gearbox have now taken to not replying at all, which won't look good for them when this progresses legally. But in the meantime, I'd love to pay some magician to fix this. If it is a seal, can the repair be done outside of a boat yard? Can anyone recommend good engineers around Oxford? That's where we are for the time being! 

[Onewheeler]

If the gbox needs to come out it doesn't need a boatyard. It was a long time ago but I took a similar setup (BMC 1.8 + PRM) apart on our mooring fairly quickly (an hour or two). (Had the box refurbed and attached to a new Beta engine).

 

[Mikexx]

10 minutes ago, Onewheeler said:

If the gbox needs to come out it doesn't need a boatyard. It was a long time ago but I took a similar setup (BMC 1.8 + PRM) apart on our mooring fairly quickly (an hour or two). (Had the box refurbed and attached to a new Beta engine).

 

 

I think we need to know where the oil is going. I can't beleive that amount of oil can disappear.

 

I suppose it is possible the bell-housing/adapter plate is oil tight and the flywheel is swimming in oil?

[Boater Sam]

The starter will be quiet if it is! But It is possible I think depending on which casting it is.

[Mikexx]

2 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

The starter will be quiet if it is! But It is possible I think depending on which casting it is.

 

Good call, perhaps its worth whipping the starter out after a little cranking and having a peek. The starter pinion and internals would be covered in oil.

[Tony Brooks]

58 minutes ago, Poppin said:

I've been booked up with work, but plan to clean up under the engine at first opportunity (Monday). Once clean, should I just put some standard paper towels underneath and run the prop for a bit?  (Since the oil only seems to drain when on the move).

 

What I don't understand is, if a seal has failed inside the housing, how will this help locate the problem? If it just drips out, runs along the casing and goes everywhere? Surely it will end up in a puddle regardless.

 

Thanks for offering so much help to a clueless person. This whole experience has been very disappointing indeed. The boat yard who supplied the gearbox have now taken to not replying at all, which won't look good for them when this progresses legally. But in the meantime, I'd love to pay some magician to fix this. If it is a seal, can the repair be done outside of a boat yard? Can anyone recommend good engineers around Oxford? That's where we are for the time being! 

paper towel will be fine. You will be looking for the location of any drips. From that you can infer where they are coming from. If t turns out to be from the bottom of the flywheel housing then we can be fairly sure its the gearbox input shaft oil seal.

 

I don’t think it is likely that the engine backplate to flywheel housing joint will be oil tight.

[Poppin]

44 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

paper towel will be fine. You will be looking for the location of any drips. From that you can infer where they are coming from. If t turns out to be from the bottom of the flywheel housing then we can be fairly sure its the gearbox input shaft oil seal.

 

I don’t think it is likely that the engine backplate to flywheel housing joint will be oil tight.

Thanks Tony, and the gearbox would need to come out to fix this? I suppose it may have to wait until we are back on the mooring in a couple of weeks! Not ideal to travel like this though, constantly topping up oil