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How much of an issue is it to get fuel in the starter motor, will it do any damage?


Saml

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Hi 

 

I've a 1.5 BMC engine in my narrow boat. The fuel distributor is leaking.  Fuel is gathering at the very bottom of the distributor and forming into drops. I've tried tightening a few bolts and searching for he leak but no luck. I've a feeling the seals / gaskets have gone.

 

I can't afford to buy a reconditioned distributor so have placed a small tray which catches the fuel. But the starter motor, which is directly under the distributor is now probably full of fuel. How much of an issue is it to get fuel in the starter motor, will it do any damage?

 

Many thanks

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25 minutes ago, Saml said:

Hi 

 

I've a 1.5 BMC engine in my narrow boat. The fuel distributor is leaking.  Fuel is gathering at the very bottom of the distributor and forming into drops. I've tried tightening a few bolts and searching for he leak but no luck. I've a feeling the seals / gaskets have gone.

 

I can't afford to buy a reconditioned distributor so have placed a small tray which catches the fuel. But the starter motor, which is directly under the distributor is now probably full of fuel. How much of an issue is it to get fuel in the starter motor, will it do any damage?

 

Many thanks

Does the starter motor have an inspection band around the rear body covering  ports where the brushes are. If so slacken the single securing screw and slide it clear and have a look.

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Yeah i can see some sort of band / seal at one end, and there are two bolts at that end, but there is an (oil?) filter in the way which i would have to take off to enable me to get to the bolts. I've change fuel filters before but never an oil filter, fairly new to this whole thing

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Saml said:

 

Yeah i can see some sort of band / seal at one end, and there are two bolts at that end, but there is an (oil?) filter in the way which i would have to take off to enable me to get to the bolts.  I've change fuel filters before but never an oil filter, fairly new to this whole thing

 

 

 

There should be a single crosswise screw connecting the band together.  Don't undo the two bolts, they hold the end plate and brush gear together.

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I wouldn't think it would do any more damage than the gunk that is already in the starter motor. Diesel is quite difficult to set alight so that isn't really an issue and what diesel will have dripped in there will, mostly, have dripped back out again. Your starter motor will already have accumulations of oil and grease and muck inside it anyway. Those accumulations could go hard and prevent the brushes from contacting the commutator but that could happen anyway diesel leak or no diesel leak and in fact in my opinion, a bit of diesel in it would be beneficial. If it's difficult to get at and it is working I would leave it alone untill it packs up. people will tell you prevention is better than cure but, in my experience, with starter motors they are in a normally filthy position, extremely difficult to get at, and very very easy to make worse. Undo the wrong screws and you will have brushes and springs flying all over the place. The best, and in my opinion only, way to service a starter motor is on a bench. Your biggest problem, by far, is the diesel leak. That needs to be sorted ASAP. It could introduce air into the diesel lines and that will stop your engine and a stopped engine could be very dangerous indeed.  

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Remove the starter motor, it's only held in place by a couple of gert great bolts at the other end.

 

First take a photo of the cables in situ, especially the little one that connects to the solenoid on the top (if there is one).

Once you've got it removed and sitting comfortably on beloved's best lace tablecloth, you'll be able to slacken the ring to your heart's delight.

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3 hours ago, Saml said:

 

 

I can't afford to buy a reconditioned distributor so have placed a small tray which catches the fuel. But the starter motor, which is directly under the distributor is now probably full of fuel. How much of an issue is it to get fuel in the starter motor, will it do any damage?

 

 

I'd say this is HIGHLY unlikely. Fuel dripping onto a starter is far more likely to just run around the outside of the body and drip ff the bottom. 

 

Does the starter still work?

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30 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Does the starter still work?

Perhaps the OP didn't dare find out using the obvious way! I doubt the diesel will burst into flames, and it is, after all, oil ie a lubricant.

 

Changing engine oil and putting a new filter on (wouldn't do one without the other) is a daunting task for a first-timer but is straightforward enough once you get into it (I still remember doing my first oil change, albeit on a sensible modern engine). I presume a decent set of spanners is available, though, to get the starter motor off once the filter is out of the way.

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I think its a later starter with the big cap over the end held in place by two nuts. If so I think it has a "rubber" gasket so I doubt much if any diesel will get into the starter.

 

I would lay odds the leak is from the throttle spindle in the turret of the injection pump. If so first ensure the  cable is not trying to force the lever beyond the stop screw. If its not then there is an O ring on the shaft that some on here have successfully renewed.

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4 hours ago, pete.i said:

I wouldn't think it would do any more damage than the gunk that is already in the starter motor. Diesel is quite difficult to set alight so that isn't really an issue and what diesel will have dripped in there will, mostly, have dripped back out again. Your starter motor will already have accumulations of oil and grease and muck inside it anyway. Those accumulations could go hard and prevent the brushes from contacting the commutator but that could happen anyway diesel leak or no diesel leak and in fact in my opinion, a bit of diesel in it would be beneficial. If it's difficult to get at and it is working I would leave it alone untill it packs up. people will tell you prevention is better than cure but, in my experience, with starter motors they are in a normally filthy position, extremely difficult to get at, and very very easy to make worse. Undo the wrong screws and you will have brushes and springs flying all over the place. The best, and in my opinion only, way to service a starter motor is on a bench. Your biggest problem, by far, is the diesel leak. That needs to be sorted ASAP. It could introduce air into the diesel lines and that will stop your engine and a stopped engine could be very dangerous indeed.  

I had problems with the starter motor on 'Keb' when I owned her and tried to buy a replacement unit. One guy suggested putting the Starter motor in a bowl and then spray 2 cans of WD40 through. Then leave it to dry for 24 hours. This I did and it was as good as new....amazing amount of crud came out though.

 

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1 hour ago, LEO said:

I had problems with the starter motor on 'Keb' when I owned her and tried to buy a replacement unit. One guy suggested putting the Starter motor in a bowl and then spray 2 cans of WD40 through. Then leave it to dry for 24 hours. This I did and it was as good as new....amazing amount of crud came out though.

 

Funnily enough so did I. But I called out RCR and the guy brought a recon unit. He couldn't find anything wrong with the old one, which was probably the original unit that you filled with WD40, but he replaced it anyway. He left the old one with me and it went with the box of spares when I sold Keb.

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When we first bought our boats, our motor was dropped into the marina a week early, they didn't grease the stern gland, the water, oil and diesel was up over the starter when we went to pick it up. They pumped it out, but on the voyage down, it caught fire twice! (We think it was because the solenoid started to short out) After a quick re-wire we got under way again.

We changed the starter motor as we got to the Nene. It was a BMC 1.8.

Good luck, hope you get it sorted.

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As noted on earlier posts, the early starters have a removable band to inspect the brushes, later ones don't. A little bit of diesel inside a starter motor is unlikely yo be too much of a problem, provided it's not swimming in it! It's very unlikely to catch fire. The main limiting factor is the brushes. They are much more tolerant than the old-school dynamos as they use copper-carbon brushes which are very hard and won't readily absorb diesel. If the motor stops working, clean the commutator chamber out and commutator and fit new brushes which are not difficult to get or expensive.

 

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9 hours ago, D. W. Walker said:

As noted on earlier posts, the early starters have a removable band to inspect the brushes, later ones don't. A little bit of diesel inside a starter motor is unlikely yo be too much of a problem, provided it's not swimming in it! It's very unlikely to catch fire. The main limiting factor is the brushes. They are much more tolerant than the old-school dynamos as they use copper-carbon brushes which are very hard and won't readily absorb diesel. If the motor stops working, clean the commutator chamber out and commutator and fit new brushes which are not difficult to get or expensive.

 

I am not sure the last bit is good advice because unless things have changed over the last few years they need soldering to the field coil and just to complicate things many field coils are/were aluminium. Its OK leaving a piece of the old copper wire on the aluminium to make it easier to solder but I found many people overheat the joint so the copper tag comes off. Also the equipment and soldering skills possessed by the average boater tends to leave much to be desired.

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3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I am not sure the last bit is good advice because unless things have changed over the last few years they need soldering to the field coil and just to complicate things many field coils are/were aluminium. Its OK leaving a piece of the old copper wire on the aluminium to make it easier to solder but I found many people overheat the joint so the copper tag comes off. Also the equipment and soldering skills possessed by the average boater tends to leave much to be desired.

Precisely why I, basically said, if it's working leave it alone.

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Thanks, you've been incredibly helpful. 

There's no reason to think that diesel will drip from the leaking distributor into the oil sump is there? this could be hazardous I'm told. 

Cheers

S

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It would be a miracle if it can find its way through steel or cast iron. If the sump gasket was iffy it might find its way in there but its far, far more likely that sump oil would find its way out.  However if the pump is in that sort of state no one can guarantee it will not leak from the shaft sea and that will get into the sump.

 

As long as you ensure the oil level is always below the maximum AND the oil keeps at more or less the original viscosity there would be no particular danger of getting diesel in the sump. The problems come when the level rises or the oil get too "thin".

 

 

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When ckack handed fitters change BMC 1.5D oil filters, they usually pour oil all over the starter motor, a bit of clean diesel will do no harm, maybe some good!

 

Don't allow a lot of diesel collect in the oil tray under the engine, soak it out with old newspapers or cat litter and dispose of it before cruising - just in case. You have a fire extinguisher in the engine room don't you? Dump some washing up detergent in with the spilt diesel, it will emulsify it.

Diesel is actually safer in a puddle rather than soaked into something which acts as a wick, its harder to light.

 

A diesel shop will be able to sort that leak, these pumps are easy to work on. Check all the unions first, diesel creeps everywhere, its hard to find exactly where it comes from. 

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18 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

When ckack handed fitters change BMC 1.5D oil filters, they usually pour oil all over the starter motor, a bit of clean diesel will do no harm, maybe some good!

 

Don't allow a lot of diesel collect in the oil tray under the engine, soak it out with old newspapers or cat litter and dispose of it before cruising - just in case. You have a fire extinguisher in the engine room don't you? Dump some washing up detergent in with the spilt diesel, it will emulsify it.

Diesel is actually safer in a puddle rather than soaked into something which acts as a wick, its harder to light.

 

A diesel shop will be able to sort that leak, these pumps are easy to work on. Check all the unions first, diesel creeps everywhere, its hard to find exactly where it comes from. 

And as long as the pump shoulder is marked in line with the pointer (or the pointer adjusted) the 1.5 must be just about the easiest diesel on which to re-time the pump after overhaul. Well within the competence of even a mediocre DIY person.

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On 25/05/2018 at 18:38, Saml said:

Thanks, you've been incredibly helpful. 

There's no reason to think that diesel will drip from the leaking distributor into the oil sump is there? this could be hazardous I'm told. 

Cheers

S

You can get diesel in the oil sump. That happens if the diaphragm in the lift pump splits.

 

 

 

 

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