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What is the rough cost of a new gearbox?


PeterCr

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The topic pretty much says it but I thought I'd enquire if anyone had any idea of the rough cost of buying and getting a mechanic to install a new gearbox, say a PRM 150? Does it vary much with the engine type? 

 

And what sorts of things should I be thinking about when considering getting a new gearbox?

 

Thanks and cheers.

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The cost of gearboxes is listed on sites such as Midland Chandlers so you can look that up yourself.

 

The indeterminate bit is whether you are replacing an identical, broken PRM150 or want to change some other sort of gearbox into a PRM150. The former is quick and easy, perhaps £100 for a couple of hours' labour. The latter is possibly open cheque book time as you may need adaptor plates changed/made, a new drive plate and and perhaps prop shaft/coupling alterations.

 

It may be simpler but this is worst case scenario. What engine and gearbox do you have now? Why not get your current gearbox fixed? What's wrong with t?

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Is this on a boat you are looking at with a view to buy ?

 

Be very wary - if it was just a matter of a 'few hundred quid' then (if it was me) I would have the work done prior to selling - the amount that you would need to reduce the price by to get any interest would be hugely more than it costs to simply replace or refurbish a gearbox.

 

Experienced boaters will ask - if they can't be bothered to fix it before sale, what else is 'hidden away' ill-maintained ?

 

Be careful - very careful.

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Thanks Mike, Alan. I'm actually looking at buying a boat and I'm trying to educate myself about as much as I possibly can, being an inexperienced newbie to boat buying. I'm trying not to be a Joe Public with little or no idea, as Seadog has suggested in another thread that some buyers are. I figure it's better to ask the question than wonder. 

 

I've seen boats for sale with Hurth gearboxes, and after spending quite some time reading about Hurth gearboxes here I get the idea that they aren't the best gearbox around. So I thought if I was to buy a boat with a Hurth gearbox it wouldn't hurt to have some idea first what it would cost to replace the gearbox if it failed. Better to know and have some funds waiting rather than get a shock if it happens. Sounds like it could be a bit of a minefield though.

 

Not easy to educate yourself when buying your first boat, though this forum is priceless. I'm learning - gradually. But I figure the real learning will start once I own a boat!

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I wouldn't assume Hurth gearboxes are bad. It's just that they are expensive to repair, meaning it is usually about the same price to replace instead

 

There are thousands of seagoing boats with Hurth/ZF gearboxes

 

Richard

Edited by RLWP
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Thanks guys, probably being too critical. Trying to tick too many boxes. As a first time buyer, it's hard to know exactly what to make an issue of and what not to. I did research Hurth gearboxes extensively, not having heard of them before. And I recall the comment somewhere here roughly along the lines of "every time I come across a boat sitting on the side of the canal with a gearbox in bits it's always a Hurth gearbox".

 

So I figured I should make a few enquiries.

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1 minute ago, PeterCr said:

Thanks guys, probably being too critical. Trying to tick too many boxes. As a first time buyer, it's hard to know exactly what to make an issue of and what not to. I did research Hurth gearboxes extensively, not having heard of them before. And I recall the comment somewhere here roughly along the lines of "every time I come across a boat sitting on the side of the canal with a gearbox in bits it's always a Hurth gearbox".

 

So I figured I should make a few enquiries.

Such as "How many times do you come across a boat with a gearbox in bits?" I doubt that it is statistically significant.

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I suspect that many builders have fitted Hurth boxes that were at the best marginal in their power rating, especially when inland use can demand ahead to full astern in no seconds flat. That leads to failure and hence their poor  apparent reputation.

 

FWIW. The Hurth box has the input and output on the same alignment so fitting a PRM hydraulic box is not straightforward because the output is offset from the input but a PRM mechanical box should be a simple enough swap.

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Haven't got it yet but I was talking to Lancing Marine today (who designed the PR gearboxes) apparently there is an article in the latest Towpath explaining how to replace a 120 with a 150.  It seems that the dimensions are almost the same and they will bolt straight in as a replacement.  However with the 150 you need to plumb an oil cooler in.  He suggested diverting the return line from the engine cooling skin tank as the way to do it.  This would should be pretty straight forward.  I have to say I dislike my clunky 120 and if it fails then I will look at the upgrade - but as it isn't broken at the moment - I don't intend to fix it!

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8 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

Just to continue the debate RCR quoted me £1500 for a reconditioned PRM260 (new not available) and a replacement new PRM280 (straightforward swap out) came in at £2500.

 

There is a whole world of difference between swapping a gearbox like-for-like, or changing for a different make and model.

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22 hours ago, PeterCr said:

Not easy to educate yourself when buying your first boat, though this forum is priceless. I'm learning - gradually. But I figure the real learning will start once I own a boat!

I applaud your efforts Sir!  You're right, you will learn a lot once you own a boat but the right preparation, the right attitude and hopefully the right boat(!) will make that learning a far more pleasant experience.  There's always something to do and there's always plenty to think about - that's part of the attraction to many of us.  It's when it all comes as a surprise to someone with few skills, little money and/or little real interest in boats that it gets a bit bloody.  Good luck in your quest!

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Thanks Sea Dog, it's not easy in the current market as a beginner.  I'm doing my best and spending hours reading forums and researching online trying to learn as much as I can. Sadly from Australia it's doubly difficult and we've almost got to the stage of giving up and waiting to next season to see if the market cools down. Not an easy introduction into narrowboat buying for a first timer.

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16 hours ago, larryjc said:

Haven't got it yet but I was talking to Lancing Marine today (who designed the PR gearboxes) apparently there is an article in the latest Towpath explaining how to replace a 120 with a 150.  It seems that the dimensions are almost the same and they will bolt straight in as a replacement.  However with the 150 you need to plumb an oil cooler in.  He suggested diverting the return line from the engine cooling skin tank as the way to do it.  This would should be pretty straight forward.  I have to say I dislike my clunky 120 and if it fails then I will look at the upgrade - but as it isn't broken at the moment - I don't intend to fix it!

I swapped a Technodrive TM60, as fitted to Vetus engines, for a PRM150.  I was surprised to find that the fitting onto the back of the engine was identical.  There is a few mm difference in length and drop, taken up by adjusting engine mounts.  Fitted the oil cooler at a later point, but the whole swap and realignment took me about two hours.  Note that the operating lever is the other way round, so needed swapping over on the Teleflex.

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1 hour ago, Sea Dog said:

I applaud your efforts Sir!  You're right, you will learn a lot once you own a boat but the right preparation, the right attitude and hopefully the right boat(!) will make that learning a far more pleasant experience.  There's always something to do and there's always plenty to think about - that's part of the attraction to many of us.  It's when it all comes as a surprise to someone with few skills, little money and/or little real interest in boats that it gets a bit bloody.  Good luck in your quest!

 

Seconded. Very well put.

 

1 hour ago, PeterCr said:

Thanks Sea Dog, it's not easy in the current market as a beginner.  I'm doing my best and spending hours reading forums and researching online trying to learn as much as I can. Sadly from Australia it's doubly difficult and we've almost got to the stage of giving up and waiting to next season to see if the market cools down. Not an easy introduction into narrowboat buying for a first timer.

 

I'm curious. Why do you want to buy a narrow boat when you live in Australia? If you are planning to come here periodically for holidays to use it, my suggestion would be to come here anyway as though you already had one, stay in B&B and spend the whole visit looking at boats for sale in the flesh. Then just buy the first one that 'speaks to your soul'. :)

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11 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

 

 

I'm curious. Why do you want to buy a narrow boat when you live in Australia?

It may be unusual, but not unique. In our local marina there's a Fox boat which is owned by two Kiwi couples who come over and use it in the summer.

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Quote

I'm curious. Why do you want to buy a narrow boat when you live in Australia? If you are planning to come here periodically for holidays to use it, my suggestion would be to come here anyway as though you already had one, stay in B&B and spend the whole visit looking at boats for sale in the flesh. Then just buy the first one that 'speaks to your soul'.

Hi Mike, my wife is English (well now Australian but originally from Nottingham) and we've been over there many times and hired many times over the years. Usually a month at a time, and as I'm now retired and she's retiring we'd love to do longer periods, including quite a few months this year then about 6 next year. Beyond a certain point it doesn't make so much sense hiring. As well as that this is our retirement activity, and as we can afford it we'd like our own boat.

 

As for coming over I've spent months tossing up with that. It's not quite as easy as staying in a B & B and looking at boats. We've got quite specific ideas about what we're looking for and are looking at the higher end of the market cost wise, and there's very few boats that come up that we'd seriously consider. And I know what we are looking for is what quite a few people are looking for, so actually buying a boat is quite hard when competing with everyone else who are looking at the same thing. I've seen boats that we might consider sell within hours. I saw a boat come up a couple of weeks ago that we'd consider, sold within about 8 hours.

 

The cost of perhaps months of accommodation, plus the usual airfares and car hire, is also an issue.

 

But more so the problem is what to do to fill in my time. A boat we'd consider might come up every few weeks, and in between I'd really have little to do. To give you an idea I've spent the day looking at boat for sale websites (I've got about 60) and see one boat we'd look at seriously at the moment. (I am right now trying to follow up with a contact over there about that boat.)

 

That being said I'm considering coming over now, and I'm looking at accommodation options, but even if I come now there's not much to look at along the lines of what we're looking for. 

 

I've watched the market for a few years and in the past I'd have a bunch of boats to look at at any time. Not so much now.

 

So trying to buy from here isn't simple. I know many people have bought from here sight unseen but in the current market by the time I've got in contact with a broker for some more photos (there's rarely any photos of the engine for instance) and asked for some more details of some specs I'd like to see the boat is sold. I tried one broker for extra photos recently and he wasn't interested. I assume he knows the boat will sell easily (it did), so he doesn't really need to bother with me.

 

Not easy unfortunately. 

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9 minutes ago, PeterCr said:

Hi Mike, my wife is English (well now Australian but originally from Nottingham) and we've been over there many times and hired many times over the years. Usually a month at a time, and as I'm now retired and she's retiring we'd love to do longer periods, including quite a few months this year then about 6 next year. Beyond a certain point it doesn't make so much sense hiring. As well as that this is our retirement activity, and as we can afford it we'd like our own boat.

 

As for coming over I've spent months tossing up with that. It's not quite as easy as staying in a B & B and looking at boats. We've got quite specific ideas about what we're looking for and are looking at the higher end of the market cost wise, and there's very few boats that come up that we'd seriously consider. And I know what we are looking for is what quite a few people are looking for, so actually buying a boat is quite hard when competing with everyone else who are looking at the same thing. I've seen boats that we might consider sell within hours. I saw a boat come up a couple of weeks ago that we'd consider, sold within about 8 hours.

 

The cost of perhaps months of accommodation, plus the usual airfares and car hire, is also an issue.

 

But more so the problem is what to do to fill in my time. A boat we'd consider might come up every few weeks, and in between I'd really have little to do. To give you an idea I've spent the day looking at boat for sale websites (I've got about 60) and see one boat we'd look at seriously at the moment. (I am right now trying to follow up with a contact over there about that boat.)

 

That being said I'm considering coming over now, and I'm looking at accommodation options, but even if I come now there's not much to look at along the lines of what we're looking for. 

 

I've watched the market for a few years and in the past I'd have a bunch of boats to look at at any time. Not so much now.

 

So trying to buy from here isn't simple. I know many people have bought from here sight unseen but in the current market by the time I've got in contact with a broker for some more photos (there's rarely any photos of the engine for instance) and asked for some more details of some specs I'd like to see the boat is sold. I tried one broker for extra photos recently and he wasn't interested. I assume he knows the boat will sell easily (it did), so he doesn't really need to bother with me.

 

Not easy unfortunately. 

Quantas fly non stop to Heathrow now in about 19 hours. From Perth though. Depending where you are in Australia it might take longer to get to Perth.

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11 minutes ago, PeterCr said:

Not easy unfortunately. 

 

Thanks for your detailed explanation Peter.

 

My solution would be a pragmatic one. Life is bleeding away all the time so my priority would be to 'get a boat'. Any boat will do so in your shoes, I'd buy almost any half decent boat for sale at say ABNB, so I could get on the water and get boating immediately. Then at my leisure seek and find the 'right boat' that fits all my requirements, whilst enjoying the imperfect boat I currently own!

 

But I appreciate everyone likes to do things differently.

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Although I should imagine the flights are 1st class only, to get plenty of money in and to keep the all up weight down to enable it to do so.  Ryanair weigh the passengers as well as the baggage.

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11 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

 

My solution would be a pragmatic one. Life is bleeding away all the time so my priority would be to 'get a boat'. Any boat will do so in your shoes, I'd buy almost any half decent boat for sale at say ABNB, so I could get on the water and get boating immediately. Then at my leisure seek and find the 'right boat' that fits all my requirements, whilst enjoying the imperfect boat I currently own!

 

Wise counsel.

Or, perhaps, as you seem to be financially comfortable, enjoy the "imperfect" boat while a new J. Wilson or ColeCraft shell is fitted out to your exact requirements? (I mention these two makes because, though there are probably even better shell-builders around, they tend to have long waiting lists).

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Quote

My solution would be a pragmatic one. Life is bleeding away all the time so my priority would be to 'get a boat'. Any boat will do so in your shoes, I'd buy almost any half decent boat for sale at say ABNB, so I could get on the water and get boating immediately. Then at my leisure seek and find the 'right boat' that fits all my requirements, whilst enjoying the imperfect boat I currently own!

Yes quite. I have thought of that and it's one of the reasons I'm considering coming over now. Summer is almost upon us and I haven't found the perfect boat yet so if we want to do some boating this summer that might have to be it!

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1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Thanks for your detailed explanation Peter.

 

My solution would be a pragmatic one. Life is bleeding away all the time so my priority would be to 'get a boat'. Any boat will do so in your shoes, I'd buy almost any half decent boat for sale at say ABNB, so I could get on the water and get boating immediately. Then at my leisure seek and find the 'right boat' that fits all my requirements, whilst enjoying the imperfect boat I currently own!

 

But I appreciate everyone likes to do things differently.

I agree with MtB and would also stress that even certainty about what boat you want very often does not survive when practically looking at boats. I heard this before I started searching but did not believe it - I thought I was firm in my expectations - my eventual boat is not much like my 'ideal' boat. Seeing this boat completely changed my mind.

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