Due Diligence

[Wanderer Vagabond]

24 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Given the broker's customer is the seller not the buyer, why would the broker give a toss how 'satisfied' the boat buyer is?

Because the buyer is now a boat owner who, at some point in the future will sell their boat. My first consideration for selling my boat at some future date would be the good service I got from the broker who sold it to us.......

16 minutes ago, MJG said:

 

We choose our selling broker based on our experience as a buyer.

 

As do a number of RBS customers I understand.

.........It would appear that I'm not alone in this.

[tree monkey]

5 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

And how often do you see on here when someone wants to look at Narrowboats " Go to Wilton they have loads and will let you look round by yourself"

And how often is that statement qualified in some way with a negative comment.

[roland elsdon]

I've bought 3 boats privately and two through brokers. The sellers attitude in each case was more relevant than the broker, who correctly always acted in their customers interests ( the seller ) not mine as buyers. Their job being to maximise sale price.

having said that both ABnb and Mercia, who have sold me boats have both acted well in the process.

i guess it depends who you buy from and what you spend. The last boat was presented gleaming and superb, but the survey evidenced lots of faults, which we have worked through over the years. The essential survey enabled the broker to negotiate our purchase after we had initially pulled out.

[Dr Bob]

I think Whilton has a significant role to play in the buying and selling of boats. This time last year we saw the boat we eventually bought via GHBS. We looked over it and were 95% sure. We had planned to go to Whilton after that viewing so told the broker we would get back in 24 hrs. Went to Whilton, one hours drive. Got 3 sets of keys. Looked inside 3. Looked at the outside of the rest. Realized just how bad these boats were (in our opinion) and immediately rang up GHBS and placed the deposit. Maybe they do get good boats in?

[Lily Rose]

5 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

I think Whilton has a significant role to play in the buying and selling of boats. This time last year we saw the boat we eventually bought via GHBS. We looked over it and were 95% sure. We had planned to go to Whilton after that viewing so told the broker we would get back in 24 hrs. Went to Whilton, one hours drive. Got 3 sets of keys. Looked inside 3. Looked at the outside of the rest. Realized just how bad these boats were (in our opinion) and immediately rang up GHBS and placed the deposit. Maybe they do get good boats in?

Very similar to us except we did it the other way round nearly 3 years ago.

 

The boat we bought via GHBS would have been the first boat we looked at and I didn't want to buy the first one we saw. So we went to Whilton, looked inside 5 boats but didn't see anything we fancied buying (to put it mildly), drove 1 hour to Wigrams Turn and had a look at Lily Rose. Same money as the boats we saw at Whilton but so much better.

 

We put our offer in immediately and had it accepted. Perhaps we could have got it for a bit less but we knew it was the one for us the minute we went inside and did not want to risk losing it.

 

 

[Horace42]

15 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Given the broker's customer is the seller not the buyer, why would the broker give a toss how 'satisfied' the boat buyer is?

The broker is the first port of call when there is hassle - and it is the customer that decides how much hassle there is - the broker avoids hassle by 'due diligence' and builds a good reputation - that is important more than ever now we have the internet when bad service can instantly be broadcast to the World.

 

 

[Horace42]

15 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Because the buyer is now a boat owner who, at some point in the future will sell their boat. My first consideration for selling my boat at some future date would be the good service I got from the broker who sold it to us.......

.........It would appear that I'm not alone in this.

I am faced with having to sell my boat soon - so a few pointers in the right direction would help.

I have an EOG mooring at home and my boat can be inspected at any time to suit the buyer, so I can't see what use a marina type broker would be, unless they have a long list of regular visitors  looking for boats, or a long list of potential buyers.

Assuming a DIY approach, is there any particular advertising agency worth trying - ??

How are boats bought and sold nowadays ??

 

[Horace42]

18 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

Broker someone who negotiates a sale between a private owner and a buyer ( not customer)

retailer someone who provides a good and or service

private seller - individual who sells at maximum profit possibly invovlving deceit

 

i  don't think that the marina in question have any  responsibility re fitness. I'm sure their mantra is ' get a survey' but buyers often know better or want to save £££

What deceit is involved in a private sale ?

I expect to sell my boat soon - probably privately - and it would help to know how to avoid deceit.

[roland elsdon]

I said possibly involving deceit

 

you know starting from

its not theirs to sell

through not as described

to we change the oil every 6 weeks honest.

 

course its unusual,  but horses houses and horseless carriages invoke the same risk.

[roland elsdon]

I was looking at a golf gti once. The owner said the seat was damp because ‘  its a bit quick i i spilt a curry last night accelerating’

possibly he had , but i thought it was rain through the not square sunroof appature caused by the car being totalled at some point in its past. 

[Horace42]

23 hours ago, Athy said:

Now THAT's salesmanship.

Yes, although I got a freebee, I still feel cheated.

 

It was a similar situation to a digital clock I bought at a car-boot  - it was  'atomic' and sold as ''guaranteed accurate to 10 seconds in a 1,000 years".

 

But it 'lost' 5 minutes at the end of the first day, so I took it back to complain about the guarantee of accuracy being completely meaningless  - only to be told they would honour it without question if I took it back in 1,000 years and it was more than 10 seconds out.

 

[Robbo]

2 hours ago, Horace42 said:

I Assuming a DIY approach, is there any particular advertising agency worth trying - ??

How are boats bought and sold nowadays ??

 

Apollo Duck and EBay..

[rusty69]

Gumtree & boatsandoutboards

[LadyG]

2 hours ago, Horace42 said:

What deceit is involved in a private sale ?

I expect to sell my boat soon - probably privately - and it would help to know how to avoid deceit.

Agreed, anyone can decieve, the broker ony takes info from the vendor, he does not "filter" the information, though I have seen "thought to be/stated to be" on the brokers description where there is doubt or lack of evidence. 

One cannot assume every vendor is dishonest, or that every broker is honest. 

[LadyG]

2 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

I was looking at a golf gti once. The owner said the seat was damp because ‘  its a bit quick i i spilt a curry last night accelerating’

possibly he had , but i thought it was rain through the not square sunroof appature caused by the car being totalled at some point in its past. 

So, does this mean a GTI with a dry seat is a bargain? Or that every private car vendor is a liar?

2 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

I said possibly involving deceit

 

you know starting from

its not theirs to sell

through not as described

to we change the oil every 6 weeks honest.

 

course its unusual,  but horses houses and horseless carriages invoke the same risk.

A broker can't be 100% sure a boat is the vendor's to sell, but it is more likely that a private boat sale,  a bargain, with no paper trail, and undue haste, might be dubious. Ask him for receipts for the fuel,  oil and filters . Ask him for the engine log, simples.

With a car you would check the MOT AND PAPERWORK.

Edited May 16, 2018 by LadyG

[jake_crew]

On 15/05/2018 at 08:02, Parahandy said:

65ft Canal Services Craft .........................

young couple who couldn't have been more than 25 years of age .............

it was purchased from Whilton Marina ...............

Anyway my spare rope is now gone and another Boat is London Bound ......r 

I wonder if Parahandy was to name the boat on here, the 'young couple' might read this and realise :-

 

1 They owe him some thanks and rope.

2 They need to bone up on the equipment needed.

 

[rusty69]

........It may provide the Vital Spark

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

........It may provide the Vital Spark

 

Ground-Hog day !!!!

 

"The Tales of Parahandy" 

Series 1 Episode 3

 

"In the aftermath of a storm Para Handy and his hapless crew rescue a drifting boat intending to claim salvage. But the abandoned vessel contains a very nasty surprise".

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Ground-Hog day !!!!

 

"The Tales of Parahandy" 

Series 1 Episode 3

 

"In the aftermath of a storm Para Handy and his hapless crew rescue a drifting boat intending to claim salvage. But the abandoned vessel contains a very nasty surprise".

...... Was it a puffer fish? 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

...... Was it a puffer fish? 

Mr G Fisher was Parahandy - in fact Dr Who (David Tennant) appeared in one episode.

[WotEver]

On 15/05/2018 at 18:29, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 Most peeps only buy a boat once in a blue moon, so less important for a broker than say a hairdresser.

Do hairdressers sell boats?

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Do hairdressers sell boats?

They do sell 'crew-cuts'

 

[blackrose]

On 15/05/2018 at 10:50, PaulJ said:

I think it all depends on the broker-Im fairly sure a quality brokerage eg ABNB state all boats going for sale should include ropes, windlasses, mooring equipment etc..

 

This is the relevant point surely, rather than arguing about whether a brokerage has a legal obligation to provide such equipment.

 

The brokerage in question isn't a reputable brokerage in my opinion. In fact they have a reputation for persuading new buyers to part with their money on the strength of a survey commissioned by the brokerage themselves. There have been countless anecdotes from unsatisfied buyers on this forum and I personally know two buyers who bought from them on that basis and both got ripped off. So what sort of survey is the brokerage commissioning? One boat had bilges full of water and a rotten floor requiring a complete refit of the boat. The guy is out of pocket by at least £10K and he's having to slowly do the fit-out himself. Was he stupid and naive, yes. Did he deserve to lose £10K and suffer from exacerbated mental health issues as a result, no!

 

Caveat Emptor certainly, these people should have commissioned their own surveys, but there's a lot to learn about boats and quite a few naive buyers. Yes, a brokerage is a business and their primary objective is to make profit, but in business there is also an element of trust and goodwill, and any brokerage which preys on the naivety of new boaters isn't reputable. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, LadyG said:

Agreed, anyone can decieve, the broker ony takes info from the vendor, he does not "filter" the information, though I have seen "thought to be/stated to be" on the brokers description where there is doubt or lack of evidence. 

One cannot assume every vendor is dishonest, or that every broker is honest. 

No broker will state all the sales particulars on any boat are 100% correct. And most if not all have a disclaimer to that effect in their sales details.

[Mike Todd]

Although what has been said about a broker being an intermediary is correct, buyers need to check as some places offer to buy for cash and I presume that they they sell them on rather than scrapping them or giving them away. As such, the usual rules about sales by a business most surely apply.

Although what has been said about a broker being an intermediary is correct, buyers need to check as some places offer to buy for cash and I presume that they they sell them on rather than scrapping them or giving them away. As such, the usual rules about sales by a business must surely apply.