Can I have Advice please ?

[Pet]

45 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

That would be fantastic.

 

I think a lot of people would jump at the chance to save a historic boat but just aren't able to so I'm glad that you are and that this one is being given a chance too. 

Hi

Yes - it will be good stress relief too - nothing really fazes me - whatever it thows up - I will find a solution

[MtB]

55 minutes ago, Pet said:

Hi and thank you - I will take photos , videos and hopefully more people will take a chance and save another

 

I'm not sure you have entirely 'got it' yet. 

 

'Saving' a historic wooden boat isn't a process with an end, it is something you do continuously until the money runs out. Then someone else has to take over 'saving' it or the boat is lost in a shockingly small number of years.  

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'm not sure you have entirely 'got it' yet. 

 

'Saving' a historic wooden boat isn't a process with an end, it is something you do continuously until the money runs out. Then someone else has to take over 'saving' it or the boat is lost in a shockingly small number of years.  

On a slightly bigger scale but a few years ago an old wooden boat was raised from the Solent and has so far cost over £20 million in restoring under half of it - in addition, it has cost £35 million to build a climate conditioned building to keep it in.

[Pet]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'm not sure you have entirely 'got it' yet. 

 

'Saving' a historic wooden boat isn't a process with an end, it is something you do continuously until the money runs out. Then someone else has to take over 'saving' it or the boat is lost in a shockingly small number of years.  

Hi

I know - well hopefully the money won't run out and I can pass it on at a later date or maybe set up a charity to keep them going

Petrina

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

On a slightly bigger scale but a few years ago an old wooden boat was raised from the Solent and has so far cost over £20 million in restoring under half of it - in addition, it has cost £35 million to build a climate conditioned building to keep it in.

Hi

I will stick with this one and not take on anything above my budgert.

[reg]

3 hours ago, Jess-- said:

what others are getting at is that the boat was originally a butty, an unpowered boat that would be towed by another powered boat (the motor)

therefore whatever is at the back end of this boat is not original, the hull will have had extensive modifications to allow the lister engine and drive gear to be fitted

Absolutely if this is a restoration project then the end result should be a butty. If it is to be used daily, as per your op, then is this the best project to pouring your money and soul into? 

There is a wealth of historical experience on here as can be found in this section of the forum

https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/forum/44-history-heritage/

Maybe with your commitment passion and, presumably, wallet they could suggest a more worthwhile project with more historical significance. 

Whatever you decide keep us posted and as per previous suggestions start a blog on this site. 

 

Now I do know of one old wreck that could do with a full restoration but I think in my case It may be to late. 

Good luck anyway. 

[70liveaboard]

5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I think the following should also be highlighted :

 

 

'Lifting' a wooden boat in 'unknown condition' could easily lead to breaking its back.

I once saw this happen at a boat yard just outside of Manchester - it was a sorry sight.

 

 

Exactly why I said 'not lift it', it would be tragic to have it be firewood at the end of the day.

 

__

 

Also OP, check the width measure, they can spread, one of mine did, which left it very near the knuckle for cruising, lock wise. They would chain them in when they were working boats, but you can't do that as a pleasure craft and they're not the easiest to pull back in and hold there.

 

I admire the fact your fairly sure you want this project and wish you luck with her, she will be worth saving, no doubt, but provided your young enough or indeed fit enough, then why not.

 

If you do manage to get her caulked up and ready (if she needs it, that is), use proper bitumen for the hull (melted), not paint.

[reg]

10 minutes ago, Pet said:

Hi

I will stick with this one and not take on anything above my budgert

I think the point that many are making is that for historic wooden boats it is basically an open ended budget, many such projects tend to be taken on by trusts or groups of some sort. 

 

Mind you I watched Eddie the eagle film last night and the naysayers told him he couldn't jump from the 90 metre run. He did and they were wrong. 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, reg said:

Mind you I watched Eddie the eagle film last night and the naysayers told him he couldn't jump from the 90 metre run. He did and they were wrong. 

The doom merchants also said we didn't have a chance in the Eurovision - were they right ?

We came 24th out of 26 countries.

 

[reg]

18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The doom merchants also said we didn't have a chance in the Eurovision - were they right ?

We came 24th out of 26 countries.

 

Whilst we are wandering OT again, my fault, its true that we do love it when the good guys or ladies  beat the odds

Cool Runnings

Eddie the Eagle 

Leicester City FC

 

I suspect the OP's projects has better odds than the above though as others have done similar before. I'm slightly torn between offering encouragement and trying to dissuade

 

 

Edited May 14, 2018 by reg

[X Alan W]

3 hours ago, Pet said:

Thank you for the advice and once she is completed everyone is welcome to visit - this is not about being practical - profit - bodge - it's about saving a bit of history and enjoying it - much to my boyfriends (one day husband - apparetnly he has this in mind) raise eyebrow.

 

The thing is - it iwas either this or a very large motorbike - as I miss my bikes - my logic is it is safer and it's lovely - it scares me - but it's a challenge and it's old, it's lovely, it has character, Shilton needs help or she will be scrapped for sure where she is or turned into someones gun palace for a couple of years then ditched or as a water based London oom with a view.

 

I have shown my son - he likes her and he has just got his first job after uni - off to do engineering along side his job , most of my friends are engineers in all fields some retired and none know about this project yet and will be shocked.

 

The main thing is - I have had the best advice today, I have made notes and I will follow all advice (apart from walking away - unless it is totally unsavable)

 

1)Get her to a dry dock and let the water go slowly: *Acess *Advice *Act (repairs if needed - which i am sure there are)

2)Once everything belw is secure:Above the water - same again - professional advice and act to save the boat

3)Start restoration

 

In between that - find out as much history as I can and make up a file on her journey.

 

Petrina

 If the boat you are after is in the usual state of repair for an old wooden boat you would be able to buy a good few big bikes for the outlay you will have to put into the boat. Have you in mind  a yard to carry out repairs? It may be a fair while to get should it require it,more probably than possibly the craftsmen with the skill & facilities to repair wooden narrow boats are few & far between & lead times are long & prices high+ it will be ongoing more or less from the day it becomes yours  The days of the wood boat are somewhat akin to gardening something always requires doing but the cost is much higher Please don't fall into the trap of heart ruling head as it will possibly turn out a bad/sad experience

 

 

 

[70liveaboard]

4 hours ago, Pet said:

Thank you everyone, sorry for late reply but I drove straight into the marina on the way back to look for myself and take more photos.

 

My experience is non regarding a narrow boat - my first boat was a risk also in the shape of a Black Prince - Shetland witha V8 which everyone told me not to buy - but after I had it restored - it was the best boat at the marina. I only sold her because I was leaving for another country to do business, so she which went on to a great couple who love her, who have other Shetlands.

 

However - I always wanted a narrow boat or barge and was offered one in 1986 for 10K and always regret not buying it (barge)

 

How I came about Shilton; I was on my local marina talking to a welder about a much smaller narrow boat when he mentioned Shilton - 20 minutes later and some photos - I had made up my mind - providing she wasn't going to sink there and then and I could get the repairs done and completed within 1 - 2 years - then I would buy her.

 

The first words out of my mouth as I climbed down into the basin and opend the doors - never have being on a narrow boat before or seen a Lister engine was "Oh my good God"

 

Yes it wasn't the prettiest of sights - it then I used to work in maintenance years ago annd it had nothing on some of the properties we have attended.

 

I used to be an artist in a past life as well as other trades and now help businesses - so being self employed has it's flexibility on time.

 

Regaring being two boats - it is just one, with the origional Lister engine in good working order.Not sure who butchered it inside, but it does have some origional cupboards inside and art work.

 

 gut instinct is - she is a nice boat - it would be nice to find out her history, where she has been on adventures and find a mooring to suit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately a large amount of these ex workboats were cut down and converted, many were given away and many sunk just to get rid of them. So that being said, if its been cut down and it does look as though it has, even though a good trad stern could have been put back on, its the 'bow' that will be the main thing to get into and check, they rarely cut them off at the front, so that will be original and the hard use they got, a lot of that was at the bow, so really look well there.

If she sags when dry docking, my advice would be walk away, but I think you would be too far into it by then.

 

If there is any work to be done on the bow, then you will need a real pro, not a wannabe, its a craft and art to build these things, long gone really for this type of thing here in the uk. There is someone up north who has a steam box (long), if it gets to that for the bow, pm me. I'll check he's still around.

Edited May 14, 2018 by 70liveaboard

[Stilllearning]

Lots of luck, if you do decide to buy this boat, and please pay very very little for it.

Out of interest, were there any bilge pumps on board, did they pump water while you were looking and did the boat smell musty/damp?

A neighbour of mine used to have only one pump on his boat. He went away on holiday and we, his neighbours, had to call in the fire brigade to pump it out to refloat it while he was away. It really can be that serious! He fitted a second pump as soon as he came home.

[Ray T]

Petrina, if it is not too late it may be an idea to engage this gentleman and get his advice. What he doesn't know about wooden boats isn't worth knowing.

 

Adrian Polglase:

 

http://www.apboatbuilding.co.uk/the-team.html

Edited May 14, 2018 by Ray T

[dave moore]

I can only echo much of the advice offered here. Many of the surviving craft are virtual rebuilds, at great expense. The timbers used years ago were far more readily available, alternatives sometimes prohibitively expensive. Please think long and hard...please..,,

[Pet]

2 hours ago, reg said:

Absolutely if this is a restoration project then the end result should be a butty. If it is to be used daily, as per your op, then is this the best project to pouring your money and soul into? 

There is a wealth of historical experience on here as can be found in this section of the forum

https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/forum/44-history-heritage/

Maybe with your commitment passion and, presumably, wallet they could suggest a more worthwhile project with more historical significance. 

Whatever you decide keep us posted and as per previous suggestions start a blog on this site. 

 

Now I do know of one old wreck that could do with a full restoration but I think in my case It may be to late. 

Good luck anyway. 

Thank you I will consider it

2 hours ago, 70liveaboard said:

Exactly why I said 'not lift it', it would be tragic to have it be firewood at the end of the day.

 

__

 

Also OP, check the width measure, they can spread, one of mine did, which left it very near the knuckle for cruising, lock wise. They would chain them in when they were working boats, but you can't do that as a pleasure craft and they're not the easiest to pull back in and hold there.

 

I admire the fact your fairly sure you want this project and wish you luck with her, she will be worth saving, no doubt, but provided your young enough or indeed fit enough, then why not.

 

If you do manage to get her caulked up and ready (if she needs it, that is), use proper bitumen for the hull (melted), not paint.

Hi

young enough/fit enough and enough resources and will get the engineers to use bitumen thank you

Edited May 14, 2018 by Pet

[Pet]

2 hours ago, reg said:

I think the point that many are making is that for historic wooden boats it is basically an open ended budget, many such projects tend to be taken on by trusts or groups of some sort. 

 

Mind you I watched Eddie the eagle film last night and the naysayers told him he couldn't jump from the 90 metre run. He did and they were wrong. 

 

Hi Reg

Great movie - they also told me I would never walk straight, live past a certain age, never amount to anything, or do any of the things I have done - it hasn't been easy - but I never gave up

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The doom merchants also said we didn't have a chance in the Eurovision - were they right ?

We came 24th out of 26 countries.

 

LOL

1 hour ago, reg said:

Whilst we are wandering OT again, my fault, its true that we do love it when the good guys or ladies  beat the odds

Cool Runnings

Eddie the Eagle 

Leicester City FC

 

I suspect the OP's projects has better odds than the above though as others have done similar before. I'm slightly torn between offering encouragement and trying to dissuade

 

 

Well if it helps - it is a big leap for me too - I have been listing pros /cons/ costs/ at the end of the day - my money, my risk and I have never had it easy - but at the end of the day - you have to do what makes you happy

[Pet]

1 hour ago, X Alan W said:

 

True and I have looked at others today which are more expensive short term but seem to lack the character - I have a few days to think as SHilton isn't going anywhere fast - I just didn't want to see it go to the knackers yard

1 hour ago, 70liveaboard said:

Unfortunately a large amount of these ex workboats were cut down and converted, many were given away and many sunk just to get rid of them. So that being said, if its been cut down and it does look as though it has, even though a good trad stern could have been put back on, its the 'bow' that will be the main thing to get into and check, they rarely cut them off at the front, so that will be original and the hard use they got, a lot of that was at the bow, so really look well there.

If she sags when dry docking, my advice would be walk away, but I think you would be too far into it by then.

 

If there is any work to be done on the bow, then you will need a real pro, not a wannabe, its a craft and art to build these things, long gone really for this type of thing here in the uk. There is someone up north who has a steam box (long), if it gets to that for the bow, pm me. I'll check he's still around.

OK great will do

1 hour ago, Stilllearning said:

Lots of luck, if you do decide to buy this boat, and please pay very very little for it.

Out of interest, were there any bilge pumps on board, did they pump water while you were looking and did the boat smell musty/damp?

A neighbour of mine used to have only one pump on his boat. He went away on holiday and we, his neighbours, had to call in the fire brigade to pump it out to refloat it while he was away. It really can be that serious! He fitted a second pump as soon as he came home.

There is a bilge on board and yes it is working

40 minutes ago, Ray T said:

Petrina, if it is not too late it may be an idea to engage this gentleman and get his advice. What he doesn't know about wooden boats isn't worth knowing.

 

Adrian Polglase:

 

http://www.apboatbuilding.co.uk/the-team.html

Thank you will do - it is never too late

28 minutes ago, dave moore said:

I can only echo much of the advice offered here. Many of the surviving craft are virtual rebuilds, at great expense. The timbers used years ago were far more readily available, alternatives sometimes prohibitively expensive. Please think long and hard...please..,,

OK will do - I only take chances on things I know will work or I am prepared to work hard to make work

[David Mack]

Chris Collins has posted pictures showing the rebuild of the wooden wide boat Progress, which is much the same age as Shilton.  Will give you some idea of what may be involved.

 

 

[Pet]

14 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Chris Collins has posted pictures showing the rebuild of the wooden wide boat Progress, which is much the same age as Shilton.  Will give you some idea of what may be involved.

 

 

Thank you - looking now

[zenataomm]

I know it's all down to interpretation, but a boat built as a 72 ft butty which is now shortened, converted and had an engine fitted is questionable when it comes to being described as a historic boat worthy of saving.

There are still a very high number of Grand Union Canal Carrying Co boats still extant, not so many wooden ones naturally.  If however anyone is feeling passionate about extending the life of one I advise getting involved in the Wooden Canal Boat Society http://wcbs.org.uk/ 

They do know what they're doing and have a hard time of it, even with all of their resources and contacts.

 

[Pet]

2 hours ago, zenataomm said:

I know it's all down to interpretation, but a boat built as a 72 ft butty which is now shortened, converted and had an engine fitted is questionable when it comes to being described as a historic boat worthy of saving.

There are still a very high number of Grand Union Canal Carrying Co boats still extant, not so many wooden ones naturally.  If however anyone is feeling passionate about extending the life of one I advise getting involved in the Wooden Canal Boat Society http://wcbs.org.uk/ 

They do know what they're doing and have a hard time of it, even with all of their resources and contacts.

 

OK point taken 

[reg]

3 hours ago, David Mack said:

Chris Collins has posted pictures showing the rebuild of the wooden wide boat Progress, which is much the same age as Shilton.  Will give you some idea of what may be involved.

 

 

Thanks for that link David first time I've seen it amazing thread wonderful to see the skills involved. 

[system 4-50]

Don't do it!  This obsession with the past is best abandoned. Instead, take on the challenge of designing something new!  It must be possible to design something new that is truly beautiful.  We've got enough ex-wrecks (and I don't mean forum members.)  Let's go forward, not backwards!

[OldGoat]

3 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

Don't do it!  This obsession with the past is best abandoned. Instead, take on the challenge of designing something new!  It must be possible to design something new that is truly beautiful.  We've got enough ex-wrecks (and I don't mean forum members.)  Let's go forward, not backwards!

I disagree with your sentiments - folks who cherish ancient devices, cars, boats, steam engines, w.h.y. are to be applauded. Sometimes the cause is a bit too far especially if the word 'budget' comes into play.

'We're' lucky to have a number of workers in metal who can replicate, nay, even surpass what craftsmen - given suitable materials - could do years ago.

[system 4-50]

1 minute ago, OldGoat said:

... folks who cherish ancient devices, cars, boats, steam engines, w.h.y. are to be applauded. ...

of course they are. And we have many of them. But we don't have enough creating the gems of tomorrow.