First boat - considering buying an 1860s ice breaker...

[DandV]

If you buy a 150 year old boat, in terms of the boat you will only be a temporary trustee, but such artefacts need an ongoing succession of temporary trustees to survive and link us with our past

 

Don

[Athy]

It's worth noting that the description does not mention a toilet or any cooking facilities (except, presumably, the top of the wood-burning stove). Nor are there any photos of the boat's interior.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Athy

[Captain Pegg]

I am wondering if the boat is more double hulled rather than overplated in the conventional sense. To weld a steel plate over a curved riveted hull would require some very precise cheeseplates over the rivets prior to welding the new baseplate sheets. This would be made even more complicated by the original plates being overlapped and riveted rather than joined via butt straps. Additionally wrought iron can't (or shouldn't) be welded in the same ways that would apply to overplating a conventional steel boat. That seems like a very onerous job. If the doubling plates were laid over the top of the rivets it is essentially a double hull and there would be an air gap the thickness of the rivet heads which may explain how it has been pressure tested with compressed air.

 

JP

 

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Captain Pegg

[matty40s]

8 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I am wondering if the boat is more double hulled rather than overplated in the conventional sense. To weld a steel plate over a curved riveted hull would require some very precise cheeseplates over the rivets prior to welding the new baseplate sheets. This would be made even more complicated by the original plates being overlapped and riveted rather than joined via butt straps. Additionally wrought iron can't (or shouldn't) be welded in the same ways that would apply to overplating a conventional steel boat. That seems like a very onerous job. If the doubling plates were laid over the top of the rivets it is essentially a double hull and there would be an air gap the thickness of the rivet heads which may explain how it has been pressure tested with compressed air.

 

JP

 

 

I think you've got it, It has essentially been double glazed. If you look at Don and Vals pictures, it is overlapped steel, the iron was overlaid similarly but there were numerous patches, blocks and other riveted repairs visible

13 minutes ago, Athy said:

It's worth noting that the description does not mention a toilet or any cooking facilities (except, presumably, the top of the wood-burning stove). Nor are there any photos of the boat's interior.

There were photos of the interior on Braunston brokerage website a month ago

[Athy]

5 minutes ago, matty40s said:

 

There were photos of the interior on Braunston brokerage website a month ago

So it has been for sale before but no one bought it. I wonder why.

I also wonder why the current seller has chosen not to show these interior shots.

[Captain Pegg]

2 minutes ago, Athy said:

So it has been for sale before but no one bought it. I wonder why.

I also wonder why the current seller has chosen not to show these interior shots.

It struggles to sell because the basic specification has very limited appeal to the market. That would be the case even if it was a new build by a builder of the highest repute. No great mystery or intrigue here.

 

JP

[Athy]

3 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

It struggles to sell because the basic specification has very limited appeal to the market. That would be the case even if it was a new build by a builder of the highest repute. No great mystery or intrigue here.

 

JP

...except that it's fairly cheap - a new Aintree Beetle of very slightly larger size would cost nearly twice as much. Don't get me wrong, I think the boat has considerable charm: but, given that charm, it should have sold by now.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Athy

[cuthound]

12 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This.  I can't see how you can test an over-plated hull for water-tightness using compressed air.

 

I was thinking just that. Compressed air tests are for systems that can be easily sealed, like tanks and pipework.

 

I can't see how you could easily seal a hull.

Edited May 10, 2018 by cuthound
Missing word

[thenortherner]

In terms of it not selling at Braunston, the boat was priced at 24k whereas now it's 6k cheaper. 

 

It's a true heart vs head decision. 

 

Can't help but think I should play it safe and get a Midway or suchlike. 

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, thenortherner said:

Can't help but think I should play it safe and get a Midway

 

The Japanese tried that some years ago.

[thenortherner]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The Japanese tried that some years ago.

And successful with it too

[mark99]

If overplated, the gap could be drilled tapped (inside) and crudely pressure tested.

 

I did hear of this done once istr to find a annoying tiny overplate weld leak. The boat gap pressured and hunt for bubbles.

[alan_fincher]

2 hours ago, thenortherner said:

It's a true heart vs head decision.

I'll say it one more time, in a different way.

 

You appear to be completely new t the world of historic boats.

I'm not - I own two - though as 1936 builds they are modern beasts compared to this one.

 

Over-plating a riveted round iron bottom of an ice boat over 150 years old is something that occurs almost never anywhere in the country.  I suggest it's so specialist that even a specialist is unlikely to have tackled anything quite like it before.

This may be a superbly restored boat, but unless you know far more than you or the advert are telling us, it could be a total colander, or quickly become one.
 

Unless you can afford to lose £18K, if you are serious, find yourself a very good surveyor.

I've bought two historic boats without a survey, so am not averse to risk, but wouldn't touch this one with a bargepole without one.

Trevor Whitling specialises in historic boats - my recommendation.

[Athy]

2 hours ago, thenortherner said:

In terms of it not selling at Braunston, the boat was priced at 24k whereas now it's 6k cheaper. 

 

 

Ah, that does make quite a difference! It also tells you that the owner will probably sell for less than the current asking price, as he has already reduced it by 25%. What's the betting she could be yours for £15,000?

But do, as Alan Fincher recommends, get a hull survey.

[X Alan W]

If the under water shape has been more or less retained which it appears to have been, you will probably find it will roll side to side a lot the ice breakers in standard trim ie less cabins were designed to do just that & with a tin top possibly more so

[Sea Dog]

8 hours ago, matty40s said:

 

 

It doesn't need thousands spending on it, that's already happened. .....

 

Give it time Matty, give it time...

 

The serious point being, of course, an historic boat is going to be an ongoing project at whatever stage you take ownership. Crikey, it doesn't even apply to just historic boats: no-one should be thinking of buying a boat if there's no budget for maintenance, necessary works and the unexpected expense.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Sea Dog

[matty40s]

2 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Trevor Whitling specialises in ...HITTING WITH A LARGE HAMMER QUITE A LOT... historic boats - my recommendation.

 

[LadyG]

9 hours ago, Athy said:

...except that it's fairly cheap - a new Aintree Beetle of very slightly larger size would cost nearly twice as much. Don't get me wrong, I think the boat has considerable charm: but, given that charm, it should have sold by now.

Cheap! I thoght it was madly expensive for something which has limited appeal, is very small and  looks like something else  ................. I am sure someone thinks it looks "boatlike", but to me the top and the bottom are not a match.

And as someone else pointed out, inherently unstable.

you can buy any number of nice little cruisers for that sort of money.

Edited May 10, 2018 by LadyG

[LadyG]

5 hours ago, mark99 said:

If overplated, the gap could be drilled tapped (inside) and crudely pressure tested.

 

I did hear of this done once istr to find a annoying tiny overplate weld leak. The boat gap pressured and hunt for bubbles.

I used to do that with my inner tube....................

[rusty69]

1 hour ago, matty40s said:

Trevor Whitling specialises in ...HITTING WITH A LARGE HAMMER QUITE A LOT... historic boats - my recommendation.

Trevors hammer aint that big, I have a picture of it somewhere, its smaller after he spent some time hitting Mr Rusty, quite hard.

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Cheap! I thoght it was madly expensive for something which has limited appeal, is very small and  looks like something else 

 

I thought so too. 

 

£1,800 is about the most I'd want to pay for a total basket case of a boat like this. Charming it may be now, give it a couple of winters unused and moored up under a tree, it will revert to looking tired, knackered and worth peanuts.

[mark99]

6 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I thought so too. 

 

£1,800 is about the most I'd want to pay for a total basket case of a boat like this. Charming it may be now, give it a couple of winters unused and moored up under a tree, it will revert to looking tired, knackered and worth peanuts.

And ideal for the Regents.

[thenortherner]

I think I've read enough and will cancel the viewing. 

 

I can't find many boats in decent mechanical and structural condition for 20K, especially with an interior which doesn't look to have an awful fit out. 

 

Just can't quite stretch to the cost of a 23ft Sea Otter which is what I was originally looking for but ended up going down other avenues due to budget. 

 

I'm starting to think that the higher initial outlay will be negated longer term with the comparatively lower running costs. 

[MtB]

44 minutes ago, thenortherner said:

Just can't quite stretch to the cost of a 23ft Sea Otter which is what I was originally looking for

 

Why would you want a Sea Otter?  Aloominum boats are unnecessarily expensive.

 

Did you discover the Aintree Beetle? £34k. A Sea Otter must be loads more than that!

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.aintreeboats.co.uk/beetle-fabfour-range/

[ditchcrawler]

20 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

 

Did you discover the Aintree Beetle?  

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.aintreeboats.co.uk/beetle-fabfour-range/

And you can get them second hand