District enforcement mooring fine Reading

[David Mack]

20 minutes ago, erivers said:

The OP should also ask the navigation authority with which his boat is registered (presumably C&RT) to explain the circumstances and authority under which his details were provided to this company of debt collectors. 

 

In the case of CRT the authority to pass on your details is the terms and conditions you accept when you apply for a licence.

[Jess--]

6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

In the case of CRT the authority to pass on your details is the terms and conditions you accept when you apply for a licence.

also worth noting is that if you are on the thames you will (possibly) be displaying an EA license or a visitor license, I'm fairly sure that having either will allow EA to share your details with anyone responsible for moorings.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

13 hours ago, jonathanA said:

I agree with Jennifer mcm.

 

swmbo recently fell foul of one of these parking eye type parking companies, they sent endless letters saying if we paid within 14 days it would be 60 quid, we were getting 3 or 4 demands a week sometimes two on the same day I would have loved them to take us to court I think a counter charge of harassment would have been lucrative.... Eventually we got a computer generated solicitors letter final warning, before court action which has never materialised shame really would have been fun...

 

i would simply bin the moor charge thing don't enter into correspondence as you are admitting liability or at least admitting you were there. It's for them to prove that you were ad understood you had entered a contract if in the very utterly improbable event it did go to court.  

 

Have a good laugh and throw it in the bin.

I don't think ignoring correspondence from the company concerned is very wise (see below) since, should they try and take you to Court, you have rather shot yourself in the foot by failing the resolve the matter out of Court. Most Courts would regard you as partly responsible for the waste of Court time so even if you were to win they would not award you any costs.

 

My approach would be to advise the company concerned that they are totally mistaken in their assertion that you have unlawfully moored there and would they care, under disclosure, to supply you with the evidence that they have of this particular misdemeanour. Should they produce photographs of your boat, it will clearly not show the necessary warning signs which immediately undermines any case that they may wish to make. The likelihood however is that they will send you a second notice demand payment, the reply to this would be that without the necessary evidence you are not going to pay and any further correspondence from them, unless it contains the necessary evidence, will be regarded as harassment and will be reported accordingly.

44 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Four years on still get reminders about the "fine" I have never responded to them easiest way 

That doesn't really sell the idea of ignoring the letter, does it?

[Robbo]

37 minutes ago, billS said:

There is also a home security issue here. If CRT or the EA provide this company with the home address of the owners of a boat moving around the system, they are also providing the information that the house is likely to be unoccupied at the time.

Also, you may not be home for quite some time to receive the letter either.

[WotEver]

11 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I don't think ignoring correspondence from the company concerned is very wise (see below) since, should they try and take you to Court, you have rather shot yourself in the foot by failing the resolve the matter out of Court. Most Courts would regard you as partly responsible for the waste of Court time so even if you were to win they would not award you any costs.

I agree. I said much the same:

 

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I don't think ignoring correspondence from the company concerned is very wise (see below) since, should they try and take you to Court, you have rather shot yourself in the foot by failing the resolve the matter out of Court. Most Courts would regard you as partly responsible for the waste of Court time so even if you were to win they would not award you any costs.

 

My approach would be to advise the company concerned that they are totally mistaken in their assertion that you have unlawfully moored there and would they care, under disclosure, to supply you with the evidence that they have of this particular misdemeanour. Should they produce photographs of your boat, it will clearly not show the necessary warning signs which immediately undermines any case that they may wish to make. The likelihood however is that they will send you a second notice demand payment, the reply to this would be that without the necessary evidence you are not going to pay and any further correspondence from them, unless it contains the necessary evidence, will be regarded as harassment and will be reported accordingly.

That doesn't really sell the idea of ignoring the letter, does it?

Has worked for me ? I took pictures to prove they were in breach of the law and on advice from one of our magistrates ignored them thereafter. If they thought they could win they would have me in court but they know they wont so they try the terror tactics and threatening letters

Edited May 10, 2018 by peterboat

[MtB]

51 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Also, you may not be home for quite some time to receive the letter either.

 

A court would say this your own lookout, if you are not reading correspondence sent to the address you give as your own.

[Horace42]

17 hours ago, reg said:

Well according to the sign you are in breach simply by stopping to read the sign. 

It also states that "It is important to read this notice in full" however there does appear to be a lot of writing and small print on the sign it certainly does not provide a succinct message. 

Is there an equivalent to the Traffic Fine Tribunal or an ombudsman for mooring? I can not find any online if so what is the appeal process? Can it be handled like a traffic offence? 

Many questions, which I'm afraid I'm not qualified to answer the problem seems to be who can provide the answer EA?, CRT? DISTRICT ENFORCEMENT? 

All seems very murky and unclear, would this level of obfuscation be allowed in a car park nowadays? I suspect not. On top of that boats are not like road vehicles in that you first have to find a mooring, tie up, secure you vehicle and, now it would seem, you then have to wander around on the off chance that a sign may be placed somewhere with a lot of small print on it which you have to digest and understand. That's the best part of 30 to 40 minutes gone. 

All seems very aggressive. I can understand their motivation for this but their methodology seems out of order particularly for casual visitors. 

Good luck with this I hope you get a good result. 

Lovely official sign - lots of identifiable names and addresses - so I suspect enforceable - !

Is that the sign that is said to be hidden ? - who/how do you pay ? - and is overnight 2 days - how do they know you have moored/stopped there ?

Lots of questions.

It would be interesting for the OP to fight the case - and report back to let us know the outcome.

 

[Robbo]

5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

A court would say this your own lookout, if you are not reading correspondence sent to the address you give as your own.

The “fee” goes up after two weeks.  The likelyhood of a boat been used for holiday purpose and you been away from “home” for two week is high.   

 

Does anyone know what the legal situation is for legal correspondence like this?

Edited May 10, 2018 by Robbo

[MtB]

2 hours ago, pearley said:

And why is call The Coal Woodland Moorings? 

 

Because as the sign says in big letters, you can moor there for £100 a day.

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Because as the sign says in big letters, you can moor there for £100 a day.

Yes Mike this is the sign that people cant see because its hidden behind a tree isnt it?

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Robbo said:

The “fee” goes up after two weeks.  The likelyhood of a boat been used for holiday purpose and you been away from “home” for two week is high.   

 

Does anyone know what the legal situation is for legal correspondence like this?

 

 

Yes, I know the legal situation. 

 

As I said, you are deemed to have received mail posted by ordinary Royal Mail to the address you give as your own. 

1 minute ago, peterboat said:

Yes Mike this is the sign that people cant see because its hidden behind a tree isnt it?

 

I can't see a tree concealing the sign in the photo someone just posted!

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Horace42 said:

Lovely official sign - lots of identifiable names and addresses - so I suspect enforceable - !

Is that the sign that is said to be hidden ? - who/how do you pay ? - and is overnight 2 days - how do they know you have moored/stopped there ?

Lots of questions.

It would be interesting for the OP to fight the case - and report back to let us know the outcome.

 

As the Op says :

 

Hi

we are new to this forum and have recently come back from a trip.   We opened the mail and found a mooring fine of a £100 from District Enforcement. (Coal Woodland Reading Tesco)

 

It would look as if the Coal Woodlands Moorings sign is the one that the OP did not see. (Unless there are more than one Coal Woodlands Mooring sites controlled by District Enforcement)

 

17 hours ago, reg said:

 

 

[Robbo]

4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Yes, I know the legal situation. 

 

As I said, you are deemed to have received mail posted by ordinary Royal Mail to the address you give as your own. 

 

But what’s the time limit?  Going on holiday for a few weeks is not unheard of.  Same thing if you get a fine for speeding, etc.

[mark99]

15 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I think £100 to moor on those excellent Reading town centre moorings for two whole days is excellent value for money...

Sounds acceptable <just> as long as they were paying the boater.

[Horace42]

5 minutes ago, mark99 said:

Sounds acceptable <just> as long as they were paying the boater.

It says £100 per day in big print - but can't read the small print.

Are you sure you get two whole days for £100.

...and as an aside, what does Tesco have to say about boaters having to pay Reading council £100 to stop there to shop.

 

[Jennifer McM]

Spoke to a volunteer lockie today who helped us through Iffley Lock (on the Thames, near Oxford) this morning, he mentioned mooring above the lock was free for 24 hours, £5 for 48 hours, and he believed it's 'silly money' after that (he thought maybe £100?).

 

Playing 'devil's advocate' perhaps this is the 'way to go', making sure a popular mooring, such as access to shops, is kept free. We don't moor on a lock landing because of inconveniencing other boaters, maybe shopping access should carry the same 'penelties'?

 

I've noticed Tesco mooring at Leighton Buzzard is 2 hours mooring only, Waitrose mooring at Berkhamsted is 4 hours, Rickmansworth Tesco just says 'no overnight' moorings.

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Jennifer McM

[Lily Rose]

2 minutes ago, Jennifer McM said:

Spoke to a volunteer lockie today who helped us through Iffley Lock (on the Thames, near Oxford) this morning, he mentioned mooring above the lock for was free for 24 hours, £5 for 48 hours, and he believed it's 'silly money' after that (he thought maybe £100?).

 

Playing 'devil's advocate' perhaps this is the 'way to go', making sure a popular mooring, such as access to shops, is kept free. We don't moor on lock landing because of inconveniencing other boater, maybe shopping access should carry the same penalty?

 

I've noticed Tesco mooring at Leighton Buzzard is 2 hours mooring only, Waitrose mooring at Berkhamsted is 4 hours, Rickmansworth Tesco just says 'no overnight' moorings.

 

If it's run by "Thames Visitor Moorings", on behalf of the EA, and if it hasn't changed since last year, then it's free for 24 hours then £5 for EACH of the next two 24 hour periods then £100 for each one after that.

 

BUT you have to go to their website, register yourself and then each time you use their moorings you have register your visit. The website tells you where all their moorings are.

[Jennifer McM]

12 minutes ago, Lily Rose said:

If it's run by "Thames Visitor Moorings", on behalf of the EA, and if it hasn't changed since last year, then it's free for 24 hours then £5 for EACH of the next two 24 hour periods then £100 for each one after that.

 

BUT you have to go to their website, register yourself and then each time you use their moorings you have register your visit. The website tells you where all their moorings are.

That's good advice, thank you! ?

 

Edited to say: I've never heard of this website. But now I've registered, and have informed them where we're moored. Brilliant! Thank you again

Edited May 10, 2018 by Jennifer McM

[Athy]

A friend of mine in the legal profession suggested, years ago, two approaches to such nuisance letetrs:

1) Write to them and say "I have never had a contract with you and therefore cannot owe you any money". Each time a further demand arrives, send EXACTLY the same letter, changing only the date, again. In his words "It'll go to sleep after a while".

2) Completely ignore it; you need to be sure that you're on safe ground to do this. At my last school, I commuted weekly to work and during the week I lived in a property in the school estate. Shortly after my arrival I started getting letters from the T.V. Licensing authority. These came every couple of weeks and their tone and the volume of their dire threats escalated on each occasion. Finally they were going to set a date to take me to court, which for some reason they never did.

Oh, how I wish they had done: I did not have a television on the premises.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Athy

[Lily Rose]

27 minutes ago, Jennifer McM said:

That's good advice, thank you! ?

 

Edited to say: I've never heard of this website. But now I've registered, and have informed them where we're moored. Brilliant! Thank you again

You're welcome.

 

I see from your blog you are going up to Lechlade. If you like sausages make sure you walk up to the butchers there, we had some super sausages from them last year. I think your last chance to do any shopping before Lechlade will be at Oxford East St (another TVM mooring). After that the river gets very remote. Turn left into Botley Road at the bridge and walk half a mile (away from the city centre) where there is a Waitrose on the RH side. Half a mile further is Aldi on the left. Also close to East St is a good butchers called Meatmasters. It's on an industrial estate and not so easy to find but with their website and Google Maps it's fairly straightforward.

 

The bridge at East St is VERY low so make sure your chimney is down etc. There wasn't much clearance above our solar panels.

[Jennifer McM]

4 minutes ago, Lily Rose said:

You're welcome.

 

I see from your blog you are going up to Lechlade. If you like sausages make sure you walk up to the butchers there, we had some super sausages from them last year. I think your last chance to do any shopping before Lechlade will be at Oxford East St (another TVM mooring). After that the river gets very remote. Turn left into Botley Road at the bridge and walk half a mile (away from the city centre) where there is a Waitrose on the RH side. Half a mile further is Aldi on the left. Also close to East St is a good butchers called Meatmasters. It's on an industrial estate and not so easy to find but with their website and Google Maps it's fairly straightforward.

 

The bridge at East St is VERY low so make sure your chimney is down etc. There wasn't much clearance above our solar panels.

Brilliant! Thank you - I've made notes of your suggestions. Fresh fruit and veg on board is getting depleted, and who can turn down shopping for good sausages! ?

[Lily Rose]

1 minute ago, Jennifer McM said:

Brilliant! Thank you - I've made notes of your suggestions. Fresh fruit and veg on board is getting depleted, and who can turn down shopping for good sausages! ?

I thought you would have stocked up in Abingdon. Waitrose is only half a mile, if that, from where you moored. There's also a Co-op that's even closer, just a few hundred yards the beyond the church you were moored opposite.

[reg]

1 hour ago, Horace42 said:

It says £100 per day in big print - but can't read the small print.

Are you sure you get two whole days for £100.

...and as an aside, what does Tesco have to say about boaters having to pay Reading council £100 to stop there to shop.

 

And nowhere on that sign appears to indicate that the moorings are actually £9.50 a day or part of day through parkonomy as shown here

https://m.parkonomy.com/en/book/814/#?range_type=hourly&start_time=2018-05-10T16:30:00&end_time=2018-05-10T17:30:00&consecutive_permits=1&vehicle_type_id=4&overnight_stay=false&sms_confirmation=false&sms_reminder=false&slot=15&extend_booking=false&past_booking_enabled=false&max_past_booking_start_day_days_start=28&max_past_booking_end_time_hours_end=18

 

And even better £12.50 for the week through Parkonomy 

https://m.parkonomy.com/en/book/814/#?range_type=weekly&start_time=2018-05-10T16:30:00&end_time=2018-05-10T17:30:00&consecutive_permits=1&vehicle_type_id=4&overnight_stay=false&sms_confirmation=false&sms_reminder=false&slot=15&extend_booking=false&past_booking_enabled=false&max_past_booking_start_day_days_start=28&max_past_booking_end_time_hours_end=18

 

So are there any signs at the mooring showing the rates through Parkonomy. If the true rates are £9.50 per day and £12.50 per week then isn't the sign from Enforcement Agency misleading.

 

I'm happy to play by fair rules but are Enforcement Agency playing by fair rules from what I can see they don't appear to be. 

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by reg

[Lily Rose]

22 minutes ago, Jennifer McM said:

Brilliant! Thank you - I've made notes of your suggestions. Fresh fruit and veg on board is getting depleted, and who can turn down shopping for good sausages! ?

Forgot to mention two things about Meatmasters...

 

1. The best way to it is to walk back to the lock from where there is a footpath through to the industrial estate.

 

2. They also sell fruit and veg.