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Wortham blake fisher boy mk3 gearbox flange removal


johnny nosh

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Hello again

It has been a while since my last post on this site, and she did survive the winter.

 

My problem now is that I have to remove the gearbox flange ( the one that joins to the prop shaft )

to exract a sheared bolt.

 

Has any one out there had to remove this kind of flange before, can you shed any light on how

to do it and any drawings or photos would be a BIG help.

 

If it is of any use to you all the wortham blake gearbox is fitted to the ford anglia type engine.

 

Many thanks for reading, hope to hear from you soon

All the best

Johnny nosh

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1 hour ago, johnny nosh said:

My problem now is that I have to remove the gearbox flange ( the one that joins to the prop shaft )

 

Most gearbox output flanges just have four bolts holding them together. Take the bolts out and slide the propshaft a little to disengage the location register. 

 

I imagine yours is different though as this is easy to figure out and I'm sure you would have.

 

A photo of the flange concerned would be most enlightening. 

 

Or do you mean you want to remove the gearbox output flange from the gearbox itself? 

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Yes

Thats what I need to do

It is held in place with a 27mm nut, I have had the nut off

but the flange stayed put. I did not want to start hitting it with

a big hammer or try to lever it off thinking there must be something

holding it in place and CLOBBERING it would not solve anything.

 

I did take some photos of the back of the gearbox last year

but some of the members on here wanted " David Bailey " type quality

photos.

 

But that is what I need to do to remove the output flange from the

gearbox to gain access to a sheered bolt.

 Thanks for reading

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DSCI0201.JPG.b8c16b2d3354cf344ec0ecc8439

 

Are those four bolts screwed into the flange? I would try to get the sheared off bit out with a drill and easy-out before dismantling the gearbox

 

Richard

 

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24 minutes ago, johnny nosh said:

Yes

Thats what I need to do

It is held in place with a 27mm nut, I have had the nut off

but the flange stayed put. I did not want to start hitting it with

a big hammer or try to lever it off thinking there must be something

holding it in place and CLOBBERING it would not solve anything.

 

I did take some photos of the back of the gearbox last year

but some of the members on here wanted " David Bailey " type quality

photos.

 

But that is what I need to do to remove the output flange from the

gearbox to gain access to a sheered bolt.

 Thanks for reading

 

Ah I see. 

 

I'm wondering if the housing around it (with the six bolts) contains an interference fit thrust bearing and needs to come off at the same time. But Richard would know if this is likely better than me. I don't 'do' gearboxes. Richard does mine for me!

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Wow that picture looks like one I took  ! ! !

 

Already tried the " not so easy out " and drill

I can see what is left of the bolt sticking out of the

back of the flange, tried snipe nosed vice grips, snipe nosed pliers

even a old set of forceps from my fishing days and I cannot get the

bugger to move.

The only option I can see is to remove the output flange .

Sorry Mike

Who is Richard ?

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Sorry I`m getting a bit  confused

I don`t mean to upset anybody

I thought that Richard was a chap you knew.

The post came from Richard after you mentioned him.

 

 

Any how

Please please please keep all the info and tips and

anything else you can think of, I`m going to the

pub to get " HEAVILY REFRESHED "

 

I`ll have one or two for you lads

Many thanks

Johnny nosh

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I'm the same Richard either way. I've got Mike's engine in my workshop and I reposted your picture from one of your previous threads

 

I don't have a lot of success with Easy-outs either. I think I'd be drilling out the remainder in situ, then seeing how bad the flange was to decide if I was going to use a Helicoil

 

Richard

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3 hours ago, johnny nosh said:

Sorry I`m getting a bit  confused

I don`t mean to upset anybody

I thought that Richard was a chap you knew.

The post came from Richard after you mentioned him.

 

 

Any how

Please please please keep all the info and tips and

anything else you can think of, I`m going to the

pub to get " HEAVILY REFRESHED "

 

I`ll have one or two for you lads

Many thanks

Johnny nosh

 

Johnny, none of us is getting upset. Don't worry about it! The goal is to help you get your gearbox fixed. Its an interesting and unusual box. Some of us here might learn something from the project.

 

I'd like to know however, what is was you had for 'us lads'. Many of us like our real ale and are hoping you weren't drinking l*ger!

 

(Or worse, the abomination becoming popular known as 'craft ale'...)

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Morning to all

Yep Mike I am a lout, a lager lout ! ! !

 

I cannot take to " real ales "  or as I like to call them

" flat rib "

Yes I did have a few for you lads last night but it was lager

Richard makes a fair point of using a helicoil, no need to strip down

the gearbox. That sounds good to me !

Problem is I have never used a helicoil before , youtube is good

but all the videos I`ve seen seem to be going into aluminium.

 

Or ALOOMINUM as septics  like to say ! !

I know the output flange is not aluminium, do they have helicoil

kits for steel ? I sure they do but what is the best kit to use ?

Can anyone reccomend a kit ?

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1 minute ago, johnny nosh said:

Morning to all

Yep Mike I am a lout, a lager lout ! ! !

 

I cannot take to " real ales "  or as I like to call them

" flat rib "

Yes I did have a few for you lads last night but it was lager

Richard makes a fair point of using a helicoil, no need to strip down

the gearbox. That sounds good to me !

Problem is I have never used a helicoil before , youtube is good

but all the videos I`ve seen seem to be going into aluminium.

 

Or ALOOMINUM as septics  like to say ! !

I know the output flange is not aluminium, do they have helicoil

kits for steel ? I sure they do but what is the best kit to use ?

Can anyone reccomend a kit ?

 

Oh you poor flower, unable to appreciate proper beer!

 

Helicoils are fine for steel. I'm sure Helicoil themselves will specify what size kit to use if you can identify the thread type and size you are drilling out. This will depend on drilling accurately concentrically though, which I doubt you'll have done if drilling freehand.

 

Another approach is to heat up the flange as much as you dare then drill in with a left hand drill bit (as discussed in another thread recently). The remains of the stud might just unscrew once you get drilling close to the thread root diameter. 

 

1350.gif

 

:cheers:

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Yes I`m afraid I`ll taste something

Flat, warm over priced dish water !

 

Our tipple differences apart thanks for the reply

I have tried to buy left handed drill bits from tool station,

screw fix, halfords and other motorcar part and tool  suppliers and they

all look at me as though I am from another planet ! !

 

I know they exsit, I have seen them on line but they all seem to come from

over the pond and import taxes and handling fees seem to be fairly high

for something that may not even work for me.

 

I have talked to the last owner of the boat and he seems quite clued up

but not in the best of health and he seems to think that the flange could

be removed so long as the shaft it sits on does not move.

Then I could get to the back of the flange get a set of mole grips

on what is left of the bolt and wind it out , that was my plan.

 

Any how please keep all the info and thoughts coming

I`m off to work, boo hoo ! ! !

 

 

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I have just re-read the original post. I thought the OP was talking aout the gearbox flange but now think he may be talking abut the shaft half coupling. If he is then form the age of the box the coupling may have been shrunk onto the shaft and retained by a bolt in the side sitting in a hole in the shaft. If it is like this the the best of luck.


The other option for non-clamp on couplings is a taper and the talk of the 24mm nut suggests that if this is in the shaft half coupling it will be a taper. You should be able to see if you turn the rudder full lock so you can push the shaft back a bit and compare the size of the hold the thread comes out of with the diameter of the shaft. I would undo the nut all but about three threads so it sits proud of the coupling face and the try refitting the coupling, using the coupling bolts as a puller. When you have a bit of tension on the bolts hold a sledge hammer against one side of the half coupling shank and commit GBH with a large hammer to the other side. THIS ONLY APPLIES TO THE SHAFT HALF COUPLING.

 

If it is a shrunk on half coupling then it may be easier to slip the boat, take the prop off and engine out so you can take the shaft out forwards. I never had much success with refitting shrunk on half couplings so gradually changed the fleet to ones with a taper.

 

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Morning all

I have been chatting to the last owner of my boat and he seems to

think that the output flange can be removed by undoing a woodruff

key.

He has sent me a diagram of the gearbox. The area I am talking about is at the rear of the gearbox . The large 27mm nut seems to hold the flange onto the shaft and there seems to be a woodruff key in the shaft. I would like to remove the flange from the shaft, extract the sheered bolt and re fit the flange onto the shaft. Hope this helps.548254965_ormelitegearboxdiagram.JPG.c9ae75c0e9ec927e8a2090c63426938b.JPG

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Ok a useful drawing.

 

Looks to me as though it is as I first suggested, the output flange is an interference fit (or just a tight fit) inside the bearing G28.

 

Can you screw two bolts right through the output flange and tighten them against the bearing housing? This will exert a high extracting force. If that doesn't work, undo the six bots holding the bearing housing and remove the whole assembly.

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How do Mike

Guzzled any good bilge water recently ? ?

I was planning to undo the 27mm nut, place a small shaft

of steel between the output shaft and the prop shaft and

pass two bolts through the prop shaft flange into the output

flange and tighten , effectively using a puller.

That was my plan

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1 hour ago, johnny nosh said:

How do Mike

Guzzled any good bilge water recently ? ?

I was planning to undo the 27mm nut, place a small shaft

of steel between the output shaft and the prop shaft and

pass two bolts through the prop shaft flange into the output

flange and tighten , effectively using a puller.

That was my plan

That is how I would try it BUT I would leave the nut on a few threads so you can not burr the end of the threads. Messing about in the bilge with a thread chaser is best avoided.

 

I agree with Mike, probable a push fit in the bearing

Edited by Tony Brooks
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Thanks chaps

I am going down to the boat in the morning armed with

everything I think I need, even a sleeping bag ! ! !

 

I`m not leaving till the job is done..........Wish me luck !

 

I`ll let you know how I get on with the job

Once again thanks to all of you real ale swilling lot ! ! !

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Oh oh one more thing

IF  I am successful in getting the flange off

and successful in removing the sheered bolt

would there be a correct torque setting for the 27mm

nut back onto the output shaft ?

Or just tighten up as much as possible ?

 

 

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10 hours ago, johnny nosh said:

How do Mike

Guzzled any good bilge water recently ? ?

 

 

Funny you should ask. I just had a truly excellent pint of 'British Bulldog" in a pub in Carterton tonight. Ghastly football pub with at least SIX mahoosive TV screens all around the pub so there was no escaping the footy. An unexpectedly superb pint of proper ale in a pub full of l*ger drinkers, thanks for asking! 

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Look, try to drill out the sheared off bolt. You might succeed

 

If you don't and damage the thread, you may be able to clean it up with a tap - this is the same if you take the flange off so it's worth a go

 

If you have damaged the thread too much (which is actually quite a lot of damage), you can helicoil with the flange in place

 

If all that fails - take the flange off

 

Take the easy options first, locking the flange up to get the nut undone isn't going to be easy

 

Richard

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4 minutes ago, RLWP said:

locking the flange up to get the nut undone isn't going to be easy

 

But Richard, that nice Mr Nosh is more resourceful than one might first expect (for a l*ger drinker). He had that nut off in post 5...!

 

 

 

On 07/05/2018 at 19:48, johnny nosh said:

It is held in place with a 27mm nut, I have had the nut off

but the flange stayed put.

 

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