Vetus Mitubish

[Tony Brooks]

29 minutes ago, chopperit said:

if people would read what i put then you will see that i talked about having a CT done first , the last thing you want to be doing is taking an engine out that is the last resort 

And I was responding in the main to Gareth E but also to the stuff you were spouting about a borescope and some others (possibly yourself) talking about doing the job in situ. On an modern inland boat engines (as opposed to many but not all cars/trucks) once a compression problem is found and the head taken off for further diagnosis then if the pistons need drawing the quickest way and the way most likely to give satisfaction is to take the engine out. The exceptions are the older, more industrial engines with crank case doors. However with limited space and access between the engine and swim it may still be quicker to take the engine out.

 

[Gareth E]

Indeed, there's hardly any space down there. It was nightmarish enough undoing everything to get the engine out, then back in again. I was in various precarious positions, body contorted, knees in painful places etc. etc. A child could maybe have done the work with the engine in situ, but I don't know any with the necessary skills. 

[chopperit]

all i said was you dont have to remove the pistons to change the rings  but if you had to change the rings the the engine would have to be removed , but do i have to say a re all that dense behind the ears ,  

[Tony Brooks]

And that is where all the "fun" started. The Vetus is a monoblock engine and how you change the piston rings without removing the pistons is beyond me and many others. When this was pointed out its seemed then you started to insulting. I think that you may well have lots of experience on very large  diesel engines that you could stick one of our engines through the bore off. I also think you have some experience of petrol cars and bikes. I do not think you have much experience of relatively modern inland marine engines in narrowboats so it might have been advisable to study the forum for a while before posting much of what you did.

[chopperit]

whatever  tired now and for your information a engine is a engine only difference is the cooling the all work the same if people would read rather than guess shit then they would see that all i said was you can change the rings without pulling the pistons out of the block completely that is it ,and that a good inspection from someone who knows what they are doing before removing the engine is good advice and as for as being insulting well they deserve it because they no SFA  end of blog 

[Eeyore]

1 hour ago, chopperit said:

whatever  tired now and for your information a engine is a engine only difference is the cooling the all work the same if people would read rather than guess shit then they would see that all i said was you can change the rings without pulling the pistons out of the block completely that is it ,and that a good inspection from someone who knows what they are doing before removing the engine is good advice and as for as being insulting well they deserve it because they no SFA  end of blog 

So you would change the rings without inspecting the bore or checking the fit of the rings in the bore. It my book that sounds like you know less than me; but you say I know nothing, so.........yeah that sounds about right?

Edited June 15, 2018 by Eeyore

[Tony Brooks]

8 minutes ago, Eeyore said:

So you would change the rings without inspecting the bore or checking the fit of the rings in the bore. It my book that sounds like you know less than me; but you say I know nothing, so.........yeah yhat sounds about right?

I am still trying to work out how you can get rings off and on pistons that are still inside a mono-block engine.

 

You obviously missed the bit where he said you could use a borascope to inspect and presumably measure the bores etc without any dismantling. I also doubt he knows about wet and dry compression tests or what a pre-combustion chamber and throat are in such engines.

 

happy to be classed by him as another know nothing

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I am still trying to work out how you can get rings off and on pistons that are still inside a mono-block engine.

 

You obviously missed the bit where he said you could use a borascope to inspect and presumably measure the bores etc without any dismantling. I also doubt he knows about wet and dry compression tests or what a pre-combustion chamber and throat are in such engines.

 

happy to be classed by him as another know nothing

The problem is that newbies read such drivel and because its on the internet it is 'gospel'.

If they try and apply such knowledge they will come down to earth with a 'bang'.

[dor]

1 hour ago, chopperit said:

whatever  tired now and for your information a engine is a engine only difference is the cooling the all work the same if people would read rather than guess shit then they would see that all i said was you can change the rings without pulling the pistons out of the block completely that is it ,and that a good inspection from someone who knows what they are doing before removing the engine is good advice and as for as being insulting well they deserve it because they no SFA  end of blog 

If you are withdrawing the pistons enough to change the rings, you might as well withdraw them completely and have a good look at the bore.  Not to mention making it easier to change the rings, especially if you intend cleaning the grooves.  You will still have to compress the rings to get the pistons back in,which is the only tricky bit.

Why make things difficult for yourself.

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The problem is that newbies read such drivel and because its on the internet it is 'gospel'.

If they try and apply such knowledge they will come down to earth with a 'bang'.

That is the problem. Sometimes I wish the mods would append a note to advise newbies that this "contribution is technically suspect".  I think several of us who have a decent tack record on technical matters queried his assertions and got insulted for our trouble.

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, dor said:

If you are withdrawing the pistons enough to change the rings, you might as well withdraw them completely and have a good look at the bore.  Not to mention making it easier to change the rings, especially if you intend cleaning the grooves.  You will still have to compress the rings to get the pistons back in,which is the only tricky bit.

Why make things difficult for yourself.

I think that he is either a motor cycle mechanic or works on very large diesels with separate crankcase and cylinders. In those cases, plus the usual Lister style engines, its no great problem to pull the barrels/cylinders off and change the rings in situ.

 

I don't see how its practical on a modern engine to pull the pistons up because dropping the sump and undoing the big end bolts would be very difficult & fiddly. Far faster to simply lift the whole engine and work in comfort.

 

Edited to add: I did wonder if he was a proper marine engineer from large ships but his command of English and  self expression  makes me doubt this.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Tony Brooks

[cuthound]

15 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I think that he is either a motor cycle mechanic or works on very large diesels with separate crankcase and cylinders. In those cases, plus the usual Lister style engines, its no great problem to pull the barrels/cylinders off and change the rings in situ.

 

I don't see how its practical on a modern engine to pull the pistons up because dropping the sump and undoing the big end bolts would be very difficult & fiddly. Far faster to simply lift the whole engine and work in comfort.

 

Edited to add: I did wonder if he was a proper marine engineer from large ships but his command of English and  self expression  makes me doubt this.

 

Indeed, many moons ago when I first became a project manager I was asked to specify a generator set. I knew about the electrical side and how petrol engines worked in cars, but not diesel engines, so explained this to my boss.

 

He gave me a pile of old specifications to read and told me to get on with it. My little knowledge proved a dangerous thing when I duly specified "explosion proof crankcase doors" on a genset utilising a modern 50 litre engine more commonly used to power trucks and trains, rather than the more traditional marine based engines ?

 

 

[davem399]

16 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I think that he is either a motor cycle mechanic or works on very large diesels with separate crankcase and cylinders. In those cases, plus the usual Lister style engines, its no great problem to pull the barrels/cylinders off and change the rings in situ.

 

I don't see how its practical on a modern engine to pull the pistons up because dropping the sump and undoing the big end bolts would be very difficult & fiddly. Far faster to simply lift the whole engine and work in comfort.

 

Edited to add: I did wonder if he was a proper marine engineer from large ships but his command of English and  self expression  makes me doubt this.

My early background was in marine engineering on large slow speed marine diesels, and we certainly couldn't re-ring a piston with it still in its liner!  Yes, I wonder what his knowledge and experience is?

[ditchcrawler]

53 minutes ago, davem399 said:

My early background was in marine engineering on large slow speed marine diesels, and we certainly couldn't re-ring a piston with it still in its liner!  Yes, I wonder what his knowledge and experience is?

I get the feeling he means you push it out the top half way until the rings are exposed, in which case you may as well take it out and do the job on the bench, But I might be wrong because I was only a sparky,

Edited June 16, 2018 by ditchcrawler

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

I get the feeling he means you push it out the top half way until the rings are exposed, in which case you may as well take it out and do the job on the bench, But I might be wrong because I was only a sparky,

But even if that is what he means how will you achieve that without a lot of fiddling and asking for subsequent oil leaks unless you take the engine out to drop the sump and undo the big end fixings. Remember this is a Vetus so no crank case doors or separate crankcase  cylinders.