chopperit Posted May 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Flyboy said: Why would that make any significant difference? like i said i don,t think its anything to do with the skin tanks , and i would send you a picture only the engine is out because im planning to chop the cabin to open it up more id like it bigger at the stern for standing , and im looking at getting my bike on a Bonnie 120 , ive got 75ft and there is only going to one bedroom, Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 Are you sure its 75 ft? That’s about three feet longer than the typical maximum length and I am not even sure it would get to Kings Lock (lock length). 48 minutes ago, Flyboy said: Why would that make any significant difference? Because in theory if its bank side it could be partially submerged in mud and perhaps the canal water could be trapped so its temperature rose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyboy Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said: Are you sure its 75 ft? That’s about three feet longer than the typical maximum length and I am not even sure it would get to Kings Lock (lock length). Because in theory if its bank side it could be partially submerged in mud and perhaps the canal water could be trapped so its temperature rose. Highly unlikely, as the swim will be further away from the bank due to its curve. Never heard of anyone overheating next to the bank. A flat bottomed boat is hardly going to sink very far into mud due to the large surface area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 Just now, Flyboy said: Highly unlikely, as the swim will be further away from the bank due to its curve. Never heard of anyone overheating next to the bank. A flat bottomed boat is hardly going to sink very far into mud due to the large surface area. I agree, but I bet that was the thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bod Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Flyboy said: Why would that make any significant difference? It's the water flow past the outside of the cooling (Skin tank) that does the actual cooling. If the flow past is stopped by silt or mud, as could happen on along term mooring, from which the boat never moves, then there is no cooling. With the cooling tank facing the bank, then this can be a problem, that would never happen,if the tank was facing the centre of the canal. Remember the old trick of blanking part of your car radiator off with silver foil or cardboard, during winter, to increase the heater output? What happened was the cooling air flow was reduced, and the engine got hotter. The boat may have suffered an extreme example of this. You say in #10 the boat was "parked" up when this happened the last time. Bod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyboy Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 On 07/05/2018 at 11:57, chopperit said: OK I UNDER STAND THE COOLING TANKS NO PROBLEM THERE PLENTY OF TANK SPACE , THE BOAT WAS PARKED UP WHEN THE ENGINE PACKED UP , BUT THANK FOR THE INFO , There seems to be a school of thought that the boat may have been moored with the swim and therefore the skin tank submerged in mud. Please clarify if this was the case or not. What type mooring was it on? As an aside, are you sure the boat is 75' long as this would be very unusual and possibly unique for a narrowboat ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopperit Posted May 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said: Are you sure its 75 ft? That’s about three feet longer than the typical maximum length and I am not even sure it would get to Kings Lock (lock length). Because in theory if its bank side it could be partially submerged in mud and perhaps the canal water could be trapped so its temperature rose. im only going of the original bill of sale it used to be restaurant called the Aquarius i will get my tape out ive just done the bilge floor and its 60ft with out the the engine cabin and the front outside bow seating space. you could be right 73 foot its big 3 minutes ago, Flyboy said: There seems to be a school of thought that the boat may have been moored with the swim and therefore the skin tank submerged in mud. Please clarify if this was the case or not. What type mooring was it on? As an aside, are you sure the boat is 75' long as this would be very unusual and possibly unique for a narrowboat ? it was moored in a marina and i do not know because i did not own the boat then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted May 8, 2018 Report Share Posted May 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, Flyboy said: There seems to be a school of thought that the boat may have been moored with the swim and therefore the skin tank submerged in mud. Please clarify if this was the case or not. What type mooring was it on? As an aside, are you sure the boat is 75' long as this would be very unusual and possibly unique for a narrowboat ? We don't know where the skin tank is, it could have been on the bottom plate even or maybe keel tubes all the OP will say is there is plenty of tank space, it could be raw water and heat exchange but I don't think we will get to the bottom of it. If I wasnt out on the L&L I would cruise down for a look if its still in the same place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth E Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 19 hours ago, chopperit said: like i said i don,t think its anything to do with the skin tanks , and i would send you a picture only the engine is out because im planning to chop the cabin to open it up more id like it bigger at the stern for standing , and im looking at getting my bike on a Bonnie 120 , ive got 75ft and there is only going to one bedroom, Regards A bit of a tip for you: if it's possible and you have options over how you arrange the boat I'd consider trying to keep your bike at the bow rather than the stern. A tug style deck at around 16 inches above water level would work well with average towpath heights. A swivelling crane fixed at the centre of the very front of the boat would make loading and unloading easier. If you fix a crane on the side of the boat the weight of the bike will make the boat heel over, making things a bit awkward. Otherwise you could consider some kind of ramp arrangement but there will be some towpaths that are too high or too low to make loading safe. Your bike will be around 7' long. Even if you have a 10' stern deck it will get in the way either of steering or moving around quickly, as you may sometimes need to do. I keep my own bike on a purpose built rack off the stern of the boat but it's only a 125, 6'4 long so has adequate clearance in narrow locks. Wide locks on my own are a no no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopperit Posted May 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 37 minutes ago, Gareth E said: A bit of a tip for you: if it's possible and you have options over how you arrange the boat I'd consider trying to keep your bike at the bow rather than the stern. A tug style deck at around 16 inches above water level would work well with average towpath heights. A swivelling crane fixed at the centre of the very front of the boat would make loading and unloading easier. If you fix a crane on the side of the boat the weight of the bike will make the boat heel over, making things a bit awkward. Otherwise you could consider some kind of ramp arrangement but there will be some towpaths that are too high or too low to make loading safe. Your bike will be around 7' long. Even if you have a 10' stern deck it will get in the way either of steering or moving around quickly, as you may sometimes need to do. I keep my own bike on a purpose built rack off the stern of the boat but it's only a 125, 6'4 long so has adequate clearance in narrow locks. Wide locks on my own are a no no. T.hanks for that but the bedroom is at the bow , and ill have a good 12 ft of stern space when im done so plenty of room Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted May 9, 2018 Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 7 hours ago, Gareth E said: A swivelling crane fixed at the centre of the very front of the boat would make loading and unloading easier. If you fix a crane on the side of the boat the weight of the bike will make the boat heel over, making things a bit awkward. With a centre mounted crane the boat will still heel over as you swing the bike over the side of the boat onto the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopperit Posted May 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2018 3 hours ago, David Mack said: With a centre mounted crane the boat will still heel over as you swing the bike over the side of the boat onto the bank. Have any of you ever heard of ratchet straps heavy duty what they use to transport cars im using them now , it don,t move , i got this , just need the tin man now that will come to site , if i can not find one ill do my self , im good with a Mig , not with dc i stick welding but its out of the water line so should be ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eeyore Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 I'm wondering how in 2016 the previous owner managed to purchase a "new" Vetus engine based on the Mitsubishi K4D? The K4D was replaced by the S4L & S4L2 engines more than 10 years ago, and Vetus have used the new engines since then. I was aware of some parts commonality, but didn't think it extended to the majority of internal parts and gaskets! Must have been a refurb unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopperit Posted May 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, Eeyore said: I'm wondering how in 2016 the previous owner managed to purchase a "new" Vetus engine based on the Mitsubishi K4D? The K4D was replaced by the S4L & S4L2 engines more than 10 years ago, and Vetus have used the new engines since then. I was aware of some parts commonality, but didn't think it extended to the majority of internal parts and gaskets! Must have been a refurb unit? the engine was brand new i have the paper work to prove it and the warranty card and they are still using the 4kd block on there 4 cylinder engines were do you get your information from they don,t make engines full stop they use other manufactured engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopperit Posted May 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, chopperit said: the engine was brand new i have the paper work to prove it and the warranty card and they are still using the 4kd block on there 4 cylinder engines were do you get your information from they don,t make engines full stop they use other manufactured engines. Vetus M4.45 Mitsubishi Engine 42Hp FWC TMC60A 2:1 Again don,t know were your getting your info from but this is one of there present range of engine and the block is a 4kd , they can say what they like but that is a 4kd block Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 On 09/05/2018 at 23:46, chopperit said: Have any of you ever heard of ratchet straps heavy duty what they use to transport cars im using them now , it don,t move , i got this , I think they have 4 wheels on the ground, its called centre of gravity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 1 hour ago, chopperit said: they are still using the 4kd block on there 4 cylinder engines were do you get your information from Dunno where Eeyore got his info specifically but he’s correct that the current M4.45 is based on an S4L2. See page 2 here for instance... https://e-katalog.lkpp.go.id/backend/produk/download_lampiran/177150 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eeyore Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 37 minutes ago, WotEver said: Dunno where Eeyore got his info specifically but he’s correct that the current M4.45 is based on an S4L2. See page 2 here for instance... https://e-katalog.lkpp.go.id/backend/produk/download_lampiran/177150 Thanks for that WotEver. I only queried it because the OP stated quite clearly in his first post that it was a K4D ENGINE. I shall have a look down the side of my S4L2 tomorrow to see what identifying marks I can find. I’ve been called a few things over the years, factually inaccurate didn’t come up to often; but who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 Do the S4L2 and KD4 perhaps share the same block? I wonder what actually changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eeyore Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, WotEver said: Do the S4L2 and KD4 perhaps share the same block? I wonder what actually changed. I have the Mitsubishi parts listing for SL engine at home, does anyone know the part mumber for the KD block for comparison. The usual thing is for later blocks to be suitable for rebuilding earlier engines; but not the other way around. A common example would be the evolution of the block on the Lister LP/Alpha engines. Knowing that some KD parts are a possibility when repairing an SL is/could be very useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eeyore Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, WotEver said: Do the S4L2 and KD4 perhaps share the same block? I wonder what actually changed. This took about 2 minutes to research. Here https://www.diamonddiesels.co.uk/product/k4d-used-block/ is a link to a picture of a K4D block Notice the characters "K4D" and "1.305L" cast into the flat part of the casting below the side access port for the fuel injection pump. Here https://www.diamonddiesels.co.uk/product/k4e-used-block/ is a link to a picture of a K4E block Notice the characters "K4E" and "1.415L" cast into the flat part of the casting below the side access port for the fuel injection pump. Here http://www.mascus.com/images/productimages/5a2ad639/9d2bd3b3.jpg is a link to a picture of a S4L block Notice the characters "S4L" cast into the small flat area just below and to the left of the side access port for the fuel injection pump. The capacity is not marked on the block as it was used for two models of engine. S4L 1.5L and S4L2 1.758L using different stroke cranks. Most people would look at this and be inclined to think that Mitsubishi cast their blocks for specific model, well most people. If thats not enough the issue of appearance might be enough to convince someone that they are not the same. And the cherry on the icing - the K4D is a 73mm bore block designed to take a 78mm stoke crank; and the S4L is a 78mm bore block designed to take a 92mm stroke crank. I'm probably still wrong in the eyes of the OP, but hey I'm only using actual photos and genuine Mitsubishi documentation; and that hasn't been good enough so far. Edited May 11, 2018 by Eeyore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Eeyore said: I only using actual photos and genuine Mitsubishi documentation; Yes, but where do you get your information from? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopperit Posted May 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 Yhey work well with narrow boats ,as long as your not close to any locks, but everyone to there own. they work perfect for me and and i shell be welding tags on for the hooks , perfect for windy condition's no rocking sleep well . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chopperit Posted May 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 15 hours ago, Eeyore said: This took about 2 minutes to research. Here https://www.diamonddiesels.co.uk/product/k4d-used-block/ is a link to a picture of a K4D block Notice the characters "K4D" and "1.305L" cast into the flat part of the casting below the side access port for the fuel injection pump. Here https://www.diamonddiesels.co.uk/product/k4e-used-block/ is a link to a picture of a K4E block Notice the characters "K4E" and "1.415L" cast into the flat part of the casting below the side access port for the fuel injection pump. Here http://www.mascus.com/images/productimages/5a2ad639/9d2bd3b3.jpg is a link to a picture of a S4L block Notice the characters "S4L" cast into the small flat area just below and to the left of the side access port for the fuel injection pump. The capacity is not marked on the block as it was used for two models of engine. S4L 1.5L and S4L2 1.758L using different stroke cranks. Most people would look at this and be inclined to think that Mitsubishi cast their blocks for specific model, well most people. If thats not enough the issue of appearance might be enough to convince someone that they are not the same. And the cherry on the icing - the K4D is a 73mm bore block designed to take a 78mm stoke crank; and the S4L is a 78mm bore block designed to take a 92mm stroke crank. I'm probably still wrong in the eyes of the OP, but hey I'm only using actual photos and genuine Mitsubishi documentation; and that hasn't been good enough so far. This is correct information but its still the same block, the cylinder head is the same the gasket sent is identical, my engine s4l66dm-np2 mfg date o62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 15 hours ago, Eeyore said: the K4D is a 73mm bore block designed to take a 78mm stoke crank; and the S4L is a 78mm bore block designed to take a 92mm stroke crank. 9 minutes ago, chopperit said: This is correct information but its still the same block, How does that work then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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