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March of the Widebeams


cuthound

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13 hours ago, furnessvale said:

Hope the bridge is undamaged.

It bears the scars of many previous scrapes. Almost certainly not all by widebeams either. I recall though that most are on the western side and not, as this is, on the eastern side. I’ll be passing next week so I’ll have a look.

 

JP

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I think there is a case for the owners to return the brute to the builders and ask for their money back. But seriously, it shows how useless some of our so called boatbuilders are, all that steel, all that welding, and that is the best that they can come up with? 10 minutes worth of 'design' with a beermat and a ruler? Its not that hard to put a bit of shape into a boat. I've got a spare 10 minutes before the dog needs a walk, I'll see if I can design a better wide beam boat.

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51 minutes ago, Dave123 said:

Apparently they freed it by lowering the level in the pound and adding ballast to the bow. Incidents like this do make it rather easy for detractors of wide beams??

 

Looking at the watermark on the bridge brickwork, it appears the level was already about 8" down when it got stuck. 

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10 hours ago, Athy said:

Some tumblehome may have helped. 

I wonder if anyone else has noticed a slight (but significant?) design change in some wide boats recently - if you look at the image attached you can see the cabin at the front rolls outwards (the opposite of tumblehome) I assume to give slightly more space inside.  I did wonder if it was an optical illusion but I am convinced it is not and it seems that the roof line on the cabin at the front is vertically in line with the outer edge of the gunnel which, even if there is an excellent steerer, I would think puts our industrial heritage at risk especially on the lovely old accommodation bridges.IMG_1430.jpg.bcec9e60cfdee5bb13fc331d803b033d.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Leo No2 said:

 if you look at the image attached you can see the cabin at the front rolls outwards (the opposite of tumblehome) IMG_1430.jpg.bcec9e60cfdee5bb13fc331d803b033d.jpg

Tumbleaway?

No, I had not noticed, but from your photo it clearly is so. Bridges beware!

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25 minutes ago, Bee said:

I think there is a case for the owners to return the brute to the builders and ask for their money back. But seriously, it shows how useless some of our so called boatbuilders are, all that steel, all that welding, and that is the best that they can come up with? 10 minutes worth of 'design' with a beermat and a ruler? Its not that hard to put a bit of shape into a boat. I've got a spare 10 minutes before the dog needs a walk, I'll see if I can design a better wide beam boat.

Not sure its all the builders fault, thinking back to a post or two on this forum a while ago, I suspect some, maybe most, customers ask for the absolute maximum interior volume, and a few ask for nice straight walls just like in a house please.

 

...............Dave

4 minutes ago, Athy said:

Tumbleaway?

No, I had not noticed, but from your photo it clearly is so. Bridges beware!

Pity you could not take a photo looking at it square on from the front, we have had one of these approach us from the front and they really do look very very wrong, I reckon it should be called tumble out.

 

.............Dave

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22 minutes ago, Leo No2 said:

I wonder if anyone else has noticed a slight (but significant?) design change in some wide boats recently - if you look at the image attached you can see the cabin at the front rolls outwards (the opposite of tumblehome) I assume to give slightly more space inside.  I did wonder if it was an optical illusion but I am convinced it is not and it seems that the roof line on the cabin at the front is vertically in line with the outer edge of the gunnel which, even if there is an excellent steerer, I would think puts our industrial heritage at risk especially on the lovely old accommodation bridges.IMG_1430.jpg.bcec9e60cfdee5bb13fc331d803b033d.jpg

I think there is becoming a case for the BSC to cover things such as cabin design.

 

Not only is this a risk to canal infrastructure but I should imagine the sharp stop as it clouts said infrastructure could cause injury to persons onboard. 

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1 hour ago, dmr said:

Pity you could not take a photo looking at it square on from the front, we have had one of these approach us from the front and they really do look very very wrong, I reckon it should be called tumble out.

 

.............Dave

I see quite a few of them where I am so I'll see what I can accomplish.

 

This one had clipped something - Blisworth Tunnel - going from the new section to the old I wonder? If my memory is correct it didn't have the 'tumbleout' - good word I think.

 

Is there a link between internal volume and VAT I wonder - never been good on tax but I am sure some of you are.

 

In the first image I posted has anyone noticed how narrow the gunnels are - again I suppose to obtain more cabin space.

 

IMG_1437.jpg.eb88e90fb603ac9b80386bb17524ef9f.jpg

 

Edited by Leo No2
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36 minutes ago, Leo No2 said:

 

 

In the first image I posted has anyone noticed how narrow the gunnels are - again I suppose to obtain more cabin space.

 

IMG_1437.jpg.eb88e90fb603ac9b80386bb17524ef9f.jpg

 

Probably 4" - but with what looks like a built-in trip hazard!

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37 minutes ago, Leo No2 said:

I see quite a few of them where I am so I'll see what I can accomplish.

 

This one had clipped something - Blisworth Tunnel - going from the new section to the old I wonder? If my memory is correct it didn't have the 'tumbleout' - good word I think.

 

Is there a link between internal volume and VAT I wonder - never been good on tax but I am sure some of you are.

 

In the first image I posted has anyone noticed how narrow the gunnels are - again I suppose to obtain more cabin space.

 

 

 

Yes, I do half remember that gunnel width or maybe height was one of the compromises that can be made as part of the zero VAT "scam".

 

Maybe if bridges get damaged CRT could sue the VAT man for encouraging unsuitable boats onto the waterways  :)

 

...............Dave

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Near Wigrams turn on Oxford/GU is moored a widebeam at quite a narrow part not a lot of room when i went past in my Narrowboat. Into Wigrams and there is a seriously big widebeam on the services. Now it would be nice if it went out and headed to Braunston . A few complaints from Widebeams might get someone out the CRT office to have a look.

 

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1009591784_mooringfail.jpg.24528033d5cc457aa2029ca881f36610.jpg

 

this one...

 

Strong contender for inconsiderate moorer of the year - another few feet and the canal widens considerably. Also moored with loose ropes at 90 degrees to the cleats, so that it comes out to meet you when you pass.

 

 

 

 

Edited by billS
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1 hour ago, dmr said:

Yes, I do half remember that gunnel width or maybe height was one of the compromises that can be made as part of the zero VAT "scam".

 

Maybe if bridges get damaged CRT could sue the VAT man for encouraging unsuitable boats onto the waterways  :)

 

...............Dave

AIUI, if the gunwales are narrow enough, the cabin roof counts as the deck, making it easier to qualify for zero rated VAT. Here at Mercia they’ve had to widen the vehicle gates because so many widebeams are being specified at 14’ beam for the same reason.

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Just now, BruceinSanity said:

AIUI, if the gunwales are narrow enough, the cabin roof counts as the deck, making it easier to qualify for zero rated VAT. Here at Mercia they’ve had to widen the vehicle gates because so many widebeams are being specified at 14’ beam for the same reason.

Let’s hope the marina water entrance is narrower!

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5 minutes ago, frangar said:

Let’s hope the marina water entrance is narrower!

You can just get 14’ through, but the options for cruising are pretty limited anyway. Turning right you could get to Horninglow but Dallow Lane just after that is narrow. Turning left and you can lock down to Sawley and so onto the Trent, but AIUI, there are some pretty tight pinch points before you get there.

 

Almost all these boats either stay in the marina as floating apartments or are craned out and taken away.

Edited by BruceinSanity
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Just now, BruceinSanity said:

You can just get 14’ through, but the options for cruising are pretty limited anyway. Turning right you could get to Horninglow but Dallow Lane just after that is narrow. Turning left and you can lock down to Sawley and so onto the Trent, but AIUI, there are some pretty tight pinch points before you get there.

And meeting yourself on that stretch would be hilarious! 

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On 01/05/2018 at 09:58, dmr said:

Many years ago Jaguar told me they would Never built an estate and Never fit a diesel engine. I told then that when I was rich I was going to get a Jaguar and have it converted into a camper van. The've done the estate and diesel but I'm still waiting for the camper (and to be rich).

 

.........Dave

" Never say never" James Bond.

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3 hours ago, Leo No2 said:

I wonder if anyone else has noticed a slight (but significant?) design change in some wide boats recently - if you look at the image attached you can see the cabin at the front rolls outwards (the opposite of tumblehome) I assume to give slightly more space inside.  I did wonder if it was an optical illusion but I am convinced it is not and it seems that the roof line on the cabin at the front is vertically in line with the outer edge of the gunnel which, even if there is an excellent steerer, I would think puts our industrial heritage at risk especially on the lovely old accommodation bridges.IMG_1430.jpg.bcec9e60cfdee5bb13fc331d803b033d.jpg

Not a particular new thing, I think - some have been like that for maybe around10 yeras I would say.

But undoubtedly becoming even more common as they try and fit maximum internal space into the available footprint.

It is made worse in many cases by another fwature to enhance internal space, namely making the cabin come closer to the front, at the expense of a minimal (or even no) well deck.  This means that the bottom of the front of the cabin is firmly placed on a bit where the boat is already curving in heavily to form the bow.

I've never really seen much evidence of big wide beams striking bridges though - perhaps because the owners in many cases insist on slowing to snails pace and only going through areched bridges when they have a second person acting as look-out.

To be fair, plenty of narrow boat owners manage to hit bridge arches on a fairly regular basis as well - you can see lots f damage on canals where wide beams simply can't get to.

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17 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

But undoubtedly becoming even more common as they try and fit maximum internal space into the available footprint.

Possibly, I think it's just as likely to be sheet metal workers getting into boat building when they don't know how to or can't be ar$3d to learn how to do double curvature

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19 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

Possibly, I think it's just as likely to be sheet metal workers getting into boat building when they don't know how to or can't be ar$3d to learn how to do double curvature

 

I've noticed a number of these, and it appears the cabin roof plate is constant width, whereas the hull narrows towards the bow. Looks to me like laziness on the part of the shell builder. No need to shape the roof plate, handrails etc - just pull the bottom of the cabin side plate in a bit.

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