PRM gearbox fixer - stoke?

[tonyreptiles]

Hi All, 

There's a grinding/squealing noise coming from my engine bay. It's a PRM gearbox and a BMC 1.6 engine.

It begins when I have been cruising for a while. It used to take a couple of hours underway before it began, but now it begins much earlier. 
It goes away for a while if I put the boat in reverse, but it soon comes back. 
It seems to come on if the engine is under load - in shallow water, through leaf/weed or if passing an oncoming boat. 

I've tried to locate the source, but no joy.

 

First question is - any ideas what it might be?
Second question - can anyone recommend a PRM gearbox/BMC engine specialist in the Stoke-on-Trent (T&M) area.

Many thanks in advance
TR
 

Edited April 29, 2018 by tonyreptiles
Spelling!

[Alan de Enfield]

http://www.rivercanalrescue.co.uk/engines-accessories/gearbox-refurbishment-sales/

 

Refurb or replacement, new or 2nd hand.

[RLWP]

Which PRM does your BMC 1.6 have?

Richard

[tonyreptiles]

2 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Which PRM does your BMC 1.6 have?

Richard

I'm not entirely sure, but it could be a 150D2 or a Delta 20. 
(I have a PRM owner's handbook and both of these are written inside.)

 

TR

[RLWP]

3 minutes ago, tonyreptiles said:

I'm not entirely sure, but it could be a 150D2 or a Delta 20. 
(I have a PRM owner's handbook and both of these are written inside.)

 

TR

The 150 is worth repairing, I would replace a Delta 20 with a 150. The input shaft for the Delta has too fine a spline and is no longer available. I have heard a rumour RCR are having shafts made, I haven't seen any yet

Richard

[tonyreptiles]

That's interesting. I guess I need to find out which one it is. 
Do the symptoms I've listed sound like a gearbox issue?

Thanks

TR

[RLWP]

It sounds rather more like a driveplate problem

[tonyreptiles]

8 minutes ago, RLWP said:

It sounds rather more like a driveplate problem

Oh, that's interesting! I really appreciate your help. 

What do you think is the problem? If only you were nearer! 

Thanks again

Tony

[Tony Brooks]

8 hours ago, tonyreptiles said:

Oh, that's interesting! I really appreciate your help. 

What do you think is the problem? If only you were nearer! 

Thanks again

Tony

I agree with Richard, a broken drive plate must be the first suspect. Whichever it is, drive plate or box, the box will have to come off at some point.

[RLWP]

9 hours ago, tonyreptiles said:

Oh, that's interesting! I really appreciate your help. 

What do you think is the problem? If only you were nearer! 

Thanks again

Tony

It depends on the type of driveplate, the most common type makes a horrendous screeching when the rubber parts break up

It's a pretty normal boatyard/mobile mechanic job. Try James Packer 07845 277058. If it's not his area he'll know someone more local to you

Richard

[Jess--]

this may sound silly (and I'm fully prepared to be corrected / ridiculed)....

but I would have discounted drive plate because the the OP says the noise goes when the gearbox is in reverse, if it were drive plate I would expect the noise to continue since the loading and direction of travel at the drive plate is the same (or very close) regardless of which direction the gearbox has selected

[Rustonick]

Try Mark Edwards (M & L Canal Services) - 07970 384047. He's around 40 mins from Stoke. 

[RLWP]

2 minutes ago, Jess-- said:

this may sound silly (and I'm fully prepared to be corrected / ridiculed)....

but I would have discounted drive plate because the the OP says the noise goes when the gearbox is in reverse, if it were drive plate I would expect the noise to continue since the loading and direction of travel at the drive plate is the same (or very close) regardless of which direction the gearbox has selected

Except I bet he slows the engine down and disengages gear when he goes into reverse, which changes the loading on the driveplate. He said it takes a while for the screeching to start

[alan_fincher]

11 hours ago, tonyreptiles said:

I'm not entirely sure, but it could be a 150D2 or a Delta 20. 
(I have a PRM owner's handbook and both of these are written inside.)

 

TR

Unless it has gone missing, there should be a small brass plate on the box that identifies it, I think.

Our last boat had a Delta, and certainly did.

[bizzard]

I reckon drive plate too. Gearbox gear or bearing wear noise doesn't come and go.  Worth checking the oil though.

[tonyreptiles]

I'll have a look for the ID plate - thanks for that. 

We've checked the gearbox oil and that is seemingly OK - if the dipstick is to be believed. 

Re driveplate - yes, we slow the engine, go neutral and then select reverse. I've never heard the noise in reverse, but then, we're rarely spending any time in that gear. 

The noise is difficult to describe - it's kind of like a squealing grinding noise. You'd have to hear it, I guess. 

I should have mentioned that we also incrementally lose drive as the issue gets worse. 

It's such a pain. I wish I could work out what it is and get it fixed. 

?

TR

 

 

[RLWP]

Just now, tonyreptiles said:

I'll have a look for the ID plate - thanks for that. 

We've checked the gearbox oil and that is seemingly OK - if the dipstick is to be believed. 

Re driveplate - yes, we slow the engine, go neutral and then select reverse. I've never heard the noise in reverse, but then, we're rarely spending any time in that gear. 

The noise is difficult to describe - it's kind of like a squealing grinding noise. You'd have to hear it, I guess. 

I should have mentioned that we also incrementally lose drive as the issue gets worse. 

It's such a pain. I wish I could work out what it is and get it fixed. 

?

TR

 

 

You need to take the gearbox off. That will tell you the state of the driveplate, which will tell you if it is the driveplate or the gearbox

If you are losing drive, be prepared for the driveplate to fail completely - you'll have no drive at all then

Richard

[Tony Brooks]

A "left wing" thought.

Could this be hydrophonic noise from the prop?

Has the OP used a listening stick to try to better isolate the noise location?

I think a listening stick would differentiator between gearbox source noise and flywheel housing sourced noise.

To a degree the latest post indicates it might be something around the prop but the loss of power does suggest a slipping gearbox or an old style drive plate that grips & slips so assessing the shaft speed may help identify the fault.

[bizzard]

What colour is the gearbox oil ? I think it should be a clear red ATF in that box. If its a browny or browny black then maybe overheating of the cone clutch ''slippage''  might be the cause.

[Boater Sam]

Prop Shaft plumber block bearing worn out? If it has one. If not, rear bearing in box?

Prop loads it in forward, not in reverse.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Boater Sam
corrections

[tonyreptiles]

These are all good things for us to check out! Thanks for the suggestions. Any others will be gratefully received!

Cheers

TR

[alan_fincher]

2 hours ago, bizzard said:

What colour is the gearbox oil ? I think it should be a clear red ATF in that box. If its a browny or browny black then maybe overheating of the cone clutch ''slippage''  might be the cause.

No,

Whether is is a Delta or a P150, either should use engine oil, not ATF.

[IDS]

Have you checked there is nothing caught round the prop ?

[tonyreptiles]

1 hour ago, IDS said:

Have you checked there is nothing caught round the prop ?

Yeah, it's all clear. 

[sbillis]

Slipping shaft coupling? Check for metel fragments where the prop shaft joins the gearbox, or if you have a python drive of similar where the prop shaft connects to the python drive.

 

Good luck

 

 

Simon