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Rivetted Construction In The Modern Day


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Another thread has discussed whether any all new narrow boats are being built with rivetted construction.

With the exception of maybe a prototype or two from the company Ray T mentioned, I'm not convinced complete boats are.

However the old skills are still very much alive.

I hope Brinklow Boat Services don't mind me lifting pictures from their Facebook pages of some of their excellent work.

The historic "Middle Northwich" boat "Sextans" has recently been lengthened by Brinklow Boat Services from 50 feet to 58 feet.  These pictures show the work involved in doing so in rivetted construction on the hull.  (The modern cabin conversion has also been extended, but in welded construction).

I hope it will be of interest to some, and showcases exactly how good Brinklow are at such work.

EDIT:

Sorry - I had hoped the forum software might keep the numbered photos in the correct sequence the work was done - it apperas it does not, and they have turned up in random order.

All photos: Brinklow Boat Services

Sextans 16.jpg

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Edited by alan_fincher
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Steam engine boilers were riveted originally and they are high pressure steam vessels. After construction they were often  left outside to rust  for a few months which apparently helped the sealing process.

Fred Dibnah made his own boiler for his traction engine Betsy. All done in his back garden in Bolton. All beautifully  rivetted. 

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45 minutes ago, ianali said:

Thanks Alan interesting photos. Do riveted boats ever leak at the seam? Are they sealed in anyway or does it relie on the rivets to pull the joint tight? 

Not modern day but I believe history tells us that riveted boats leak after coming into contact with ice. ?

 

See the source image
Edited by Ray T
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59 minutes ago, ianali said:

Thanks Alan interesting photos. Do riveted boats ever leak at the seam? Are they sealed in anyway or does it relie on the rivets to pull the joint tight? 

The process involves including a sealant like Horse SH1t and hair into the seam before riveting,  The external water pressure then forces it into the gap, plus of course bitumen .... or at least they were doing that down at Woolwich in the 30s

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23 minutes ago, mark99 said:

Let's hope there is a youngster or two hoovering up the knowledge at the yard. 

The man doing the bulk of the steelwork isn't actually that old........................

However there are no real youngsters I'm aware of involved in this kind of work.  The owner at Stockton Dry Dock, (doing similar work to Brinklow), has indicated that when they have tried to train up youngsters they don't really like lying for hours un large puddles in "dry" docks, with sparks descending over their clothing, and they don't tend to stay.

It's definitely a worry for those of us with boats that need the specialist services of these yards.

For anyone who is interested, these blog posts detail some of the work done on our historic icebreaker tug at Stockton Dry Dock in August 2016

Part 1

Part 2

 

Edited by alan_fincher
Correcting some of the bad typing!
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How were all those holes drilled or punched? My poor old Black and Decker wouldn't last long doing that sort of work and whenever I have had to do anything remotely like that I could never get the holes lined up. If riveted boats were being built way back in the 1800's or even before and riveted boilers back in the mists of time it must have been a days work to drill a few holes.

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There are plenty of yards these days keeping these traditions alive, maybe not all skills is all yards but enough to keep them going. Several yards have been taken over with new "young" blood who are very much keen on the ways of old. and pride themselves of the fact.

 

Dan

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14 minutes ago, Bee said:

How were all those holes drilled or punched? My poor old Black and Decker wouldn't last long doing that sort of work and whenever I have had to do anything remotely like that I could never get the holes lined up. If riveted boats were being built way back in the 1800's or even before and riveted boilers back in the mists of time it must have been a days work to drill a few holes.

In the images you can see a mounted drill. Looks like a serious  piece of kit.

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51 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Magnetic based auto feed mill with an end mill cutter just eats steel like butter, and avoids breaking your wrists.

I for one wouldn't argue with that ....... I don't know what you said but it's fine by me!

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4 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

The man doing the bulk of the steelwork isn't actually that old........................

However there are no real youngsters I'm aware of involved in this kind of work.  The owner at Stockton Dry Dock, (doing similar work to Brinklow), has indicated that when they have tried to train up youngsters they don't really like lying for hours un large puddles in "dry" docks, with sparks descending over their clothing, and they don't tend to stay.

It's definitely a worry for those of us with boats that need the specialist services of these yards.

 

I still haven't decided what I'd like to do when I grow up. Becoming Simon's or a Stockton apprentice is deeply attractive. 

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7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I still haven't decided what I'd like to do when I grow up. Becoming Simon's or a Stockton apprentice is deeply attractive. 

I decided some years ago to avoid this difficult decision by just not growing up. 

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19 hours ago, Ray T said:

Not modern day but I believe history tells us that riveted boats leak after coming into contact with ice. ?

 

See the source image

They certainly do if you're breaking ice all the way from Cosgrove to Broxbourne after Xmas. Did this in 1985 with Kate and Snowy on board Baron, ice wore away the river heads in the bow, bilge needed pumping every couple of hours by the time we got back. Then the boatyard that was repairing it forgot and it sank to the bottom with all their stuff...

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Once a riveted seam has been closed you should go along the edges of the plates or the edges of the buttstraps with a tool like a blunt air  chisel and beat them to make the joint watertight. It is called caulking.There is (was) a  specialist metal shipyard tradesman  who does this-the caulker.  The caulker also wields a sharp chisel when things need to be cut off.  Hence the dockyard expression "just caulk off that bolt head/ surplus fitting/ failed rivet"

 

N

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21 hours ago, Bee said:

How were all those holes drilled or punched? My poor old Black and Decker wouldn't last long doing that sort of work and whenever I have had to do anything remotely like that I could never get the holes lined up. If riveted boats were being built way back in the 1800's or even before and riveted boilers back in the mists of time it must have been a days work to drill a few holes.

Not only do you have to drill the holes (end mill as someone has already said), they have to be countersunk on the outside too.

Twice the fun!

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53 minutes ago, Col_T said:

Wouldn't the countersink be inside the hull, rather than underneath the rivet head?

 

Countersinking on the inside would be rather pointless. It would leave you still with a big lump on the outside just where you don't want it. Look at the photos. You can see the countersinking.

 

And when you look properly at the real rivets, you notice how close to flush they are and how unrealistic false rivets made from washers welded on, actually are. 

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On 29/04/2018 at 21:14, Bee said:

How were all those holes drilled or punched? My poor old Black and Decker wouldn't last long doing that sort of work and whenever I have had to do anything remotely like that I could never get the holes lined up. If riveted boats were being built way back in the 1800's or even before and riveted boilers back in the mists of time it must have been a days work to drill a few holes.

Holes for rivets started off being drilled by spear drills, which whilst looking primitive seemed to get the job done.  Normally held in a simple frame with a forcing screw to aid the process.

Picture below shows HATFIELD outside her builders, Claude Campling of Goole.  Between her and the building is a huge ex admiralty riveting and punching press, used to form the holes in the various plates and frames, etc.  It was said to have consumed so much power that all the other machines in the yard were switched off, when this was in use.

 

IMG_0074.JPG

Next image showers different types of rivets employed in HATFIELD, inside view and outside.

 

IMG_0069.JPG

IMG_0068.JPG

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