Hand Cranking Lister HR2

[Nimdoorquoi]

I have a Lister HR2 in my boat. I have only managed to hand start it after it has already been warmed up. i.e. start using starter motor, run it until its warm, shut it down, then hand start it using decompression levers one after t'other and voila. Am I just too weedy to hand start it cold or am i doing something wrong? Also, if you are to hand start, would you switch on the starter or not bother as it isn't being used?

Hands up, I am not an expert.

When I start my engine using the starter motor it fires up almost instantly.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated and I am tempted to try every evening next week until I manage to get the 'knack' or whatever it is I need...

Cheers

[mrsmelly]

My first boat had an Lr 2 of course much smaller than the Hr 2. It didnt have a girlie electric starter fitted so even in  minus 20 on the odd occasion I had to hand start. Apart from the decompression levers it had little pot thingies that I put a drop of diesel into and pushed a plastic bung thingie into and it then started quite readily. I think it was supposed to be oil iirc but I always had a fairy liquid type bottle handy with diesel in that did the trick. I skippered a boat with an HR2 fitted some years ago and there was a lever thing that I had to do something with to start it from cold? There ya go all in proper engineering speak ?

[MtB]

29 minutes ago, Nimdoorquoi said:

I have a Lister HR2 in my boat. I have only managed to hand start it after it has already been warmed up. i.e. start using starter motor, run it until its warm, shut it down, then hand start it using decompression levers one after t'other and voila. Am I just too weedy to hand start it cold or am i doing something wrong? Also, if you are to hand start, would you switch on the starter or not bother as it isn't being used?

Hands up, I am not an expert.

When I start my engine using the starter motor it fires up almost instantly.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated and I am tempted to try every evening next week until I manage to get the 'knack' or whatever it is I need...

Cheers

 

My HRW2 was impossible to start by hand. Compression was just too good. As soon as you flicked over one of the decompressors it stopped dead no matter how fast you turned it over. 

[zenataomm]

I once put a post on here describing how to do this, when cold and without using decompressors.

I'll see if I can find it and put on a link.

[Nimdoorquoi]

Zenataomm that would be amazing if you can find it. Thanks!

[RLWP]

1 hour ago, zenataomm said:

I once put a post on here describing how to do this, when cold and without using decompressors.

I'll see if I can find it and put on a link.

What difference does being ten years younger make?

I struggle to hand start any diesel engine

[BWM]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

My HRW2 was impossible to start by hand. Compression was just too good. As soon as you flicked over one of the decompressors it stopped dead no matter how fast you turned it over. 

Hand start only on my Jp3, I find that I have to use number one decompressor first, as two will stop the engine dead. 

[zenataomm]

I can't find it, so shall describe it.  Unless you're near Rugby in which case I shall happily show you.

I have won many a pint in bets doing this and it was first shown to me by Jim McDonald renowned surveyor and current vendor of Elizabeth.

Lister's of this series have two cylinders and are designed so that when one piston is at TDC the other is at BDC. They run half a cycle behind each other.

So after number one hits TDC on compression there are one and a half turns before the second one hits compression, giving you sufficient time to get speed up.

To prepare: -

Put the handle on

Wind some throttle on

Lift the cold start

Decompress both cylinders and give a couple or three turns very slowly

Listening for injector creak stop turning the moment you hear the second creak

Flick off the decompressors on both cylinders

I used to turn the handle backwards until it was at 6 o'clock so I knew that the next compression would hit at 12 o'clock giving me the best position and stance to whop it through compression.

So you are now standing in front of the flywheel, both decompressors OFF, you grasp the handle with both hands (without your thumbs around, just in case!) Rotate it as fast as you can, safe in knowledge that you have one and a half rotations before the first compression hits. It may fire, in which case you're off.  Alternatively the release of energy as it passes first will assist you in the half a stroke to the next compression (at 6 o'clock). Then it should fire.

If it hasn't fired by then, stop and reset it all. It will, so long as you have good compression.  If you're compression is down you're on a hiding to nothing.

I see no reason it shouldn't work on LR & SR/ST range but does lend itself towards overhead hand crank set ups.

 

[David Mack]

At one time I could hand start the HR3 powered pump that WRG used to have at Droitwich, even on a cold day. But that was when I was more than 3 times ten years younger. I couldn't do it now.

Your engine probably has an excess fuel setting which you need to engage before hand starting, but which is not necessary for electric start. And if you can have an assistant to drop the decompressors on your command you can keep your full effort on turning the engine over that first compression.

[Nimdoorquoi]

Zenataomm, thank you very very much for this. I will try this over the weekend. This is the first time I have been given a real detailed explanation. I hope I can get it going as I've had this engine for 5 years and never have done so.

I will keep you posted as to how I get on.

Cheers!

[zenataomm]

I've just reread my post above, and I'm making an amendment, it doesn't effect anything and is only in the initial description .......

I said: -

"So after number one hits TDC on compression there are one and a half turns before the second one hits compression, giving you sufficient time to get speed up."

That's wrong, I should have said after number two hits TDC there are one and a half .......... which is why your starting point is immediately after number two injector creaks.

Attempt it with conviction Nimdoorquoi, you'll get confidence after you've proven to yourself you can get up enough energy to crank it over the initial compression and then even the second one should it not fire on the first.

If it helps the mental process overcome the fear of it kicking back then keep in the back of your mind that by not having your thumbs wrapped around the handle you'll be quite safe and anyway you can always let go of the handle or slip it back off the overhead crank in a second.

Anyone wanting personal tuition in this I'm happy to show you (assuming you have an HA/HB/HR2) and can often be found in The Rugby/Hillmorton area or on board my boat Alcatraz when out and about elsewhere.

 

 

[BWM]

On 26/04/2018 at 19:55, David Mack said:

At one time I could hand start the HR3 powered pump that WRG used to have at Droitwich, even on a cold day. But that was when I was more than 3 times ten years younger. I couldn't do it now.

Your engine probably has an excess fuel setting which you need to engage before hand starting, but which is not necessary for electric start. And if you can have an assistant to drop the decompressors on your command you can keep your full effort on turning the engine over that first compression.

Totally agree that you need the fuel delivery set to near maximum for easier hand starting, and normally use a bit of string in place of an assistant.

 

[zenataomm]

12 minutes ago, BWM said:

Totally agree that you need the fuel delivery set to near maximum for easier hand starting, and normally use a bit of string in place of an assistant.

 

The process I have just described includes raising the fuel rack stop but not an assistant.

Out of curiosity, what do you attach the piece of string to?  

Or are you quoting the JP starting method? This thread is the H series

[MtB]

I still could never get over the first compression stroke on my HRW2....

[roland elsdon]

On 26 April 2018 at 19:54, zenataomm said:

I can't find it, so shall describe it.  Unless you're near Rugby in which case I shall happily show you.

I have won many a pint in bets doing this and it was first shown to me by Jim McDonald renowned surveyor and current vendor of Elizabeth.

Lister's of this series have two cylinders and are designed so that when one piston is at TDC the other is at BDC. They run half a cycle behind each other.

So after number one hits TDC on compression there are one and a half turns before the second one hits compression, giving you sufficient time to get speed up.

To prepare: -

Put the handle on

Wind some throttle on

Lift the cold start

Decompress both cylinders and give a couple or three turns very slowly

Listening for injector creak stop turning the moment you hear the second creak

Flick off the decompressors on both cylinders

I used to turn the handle backwards until it was at 6 o'clock so I knew that the next compression would hit at 12 o'clock giving me the best position and stance to whop it through compression.

So you are now standing in front of the flywheel, both decompressors OFF, you grasp the handle with both hands (without your thumbs around, just in case!) Rotate it as fast as you can, safe in knowledge that you have one and a half rotations before the first compression hits. It may fire, in which case you're off.  Alternatively the release of energy as it passes first will assist you in the half a stroke to the next compression (at 6 o'clock). Then it should fire.

If it hasn't fired by then, stop and reset it all. It will, so long as you have good compression.  If you're compression is down you're on a hiding to nothing.

I see no reason it shouldn't work on LR & SR/ST range but does lend itself towards overhead hand crank set ups.

 

I believe you taught me how to do this with our lister many years ago and I did it many times. However not when stone cold...then I preferred the single drop tap approach.

After 16 years of hand starting the HA 2 with my left ( dominant arm) I have been left  17 years after selling the boat with a completely knackered shoulder. The investigations showed major wear to the joint, arthritis, and bursitis. I tried to blame it on part of my job, but got nowhere with that. 

[zenataomm]

I remember that Roland, about 1983 "Thaxted" ?

[BWM]

On 27/04/2018 at 20:40, zenataomm said:

The process I have just described includes raising the fuel rack stop but not an assistant.

Out of curiosity, what do you attach the piece of string to?  

Or are you quoting the JP starting method? This thread is the H series

Just a general comment on hand starting, and yes more relevant to the jp but agreeing with the importance of extra fuel- the lack of being a real impediment to hand starting on any engine.

[roland elsdon]

Yep thaxted about 1984 I recon. It was a good trick and worked but if it went wrong it would lift me off my feet. In later years thaxted said ratchet system got worn and as it went on to load would 'give' I had to revert to single pot cranking for a while. Then we got the clockwork starter...

[OptedOut]

Another impediment to starting in cold weather is the 3 to 20 turns ritual, the engine definitely gets 'stiffer' once the oil pressure is up a bit.