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Laurence Hogg

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12 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

You're about three days late Lorry! This is the forth new thread (at least) on the subject :)

.....and how much did it cost ?.......instead of a mile of dredging or piling ? - or perhaps it came out of the cycle track budget...!

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1 hour ago, Horace42 said:

.....and how much did it cost ?.......instead of a mile of dredging or piling ? - or perhaps it came out of the cycle track budget...!

Now you are having a laugh!  Don't you know that grants from local authorities, Sustrans etc., are strictly allocated.

The only money that CRT has that it can fritter away invest in other areas, comes from mugs boaters and the like.

George

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14 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

It is rubbish isn't it?

Did they spend two minutes knocking up a sketch of that and the rest of the time and money in the pub?

I'm not sure if the person who designed that would be old enough to spend money in the pub

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50 minutes ago, Tanglewood said:

Even more worrying is management's blinkered determination to steamroll this kind of thing through without recognising that it increases  the alienation of the boating fraternity.

 

And why might they care about that? In fact there is a skool of thought that alienating boaters and driving them off the system would suit CRT just fine. 

Think of all the dredging that won't need doing and lock gates that won't need fixing. The maintenance budget could be set to virtually zero.

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More seriously though, if boaters really are no longer wanted on the system and we all faded away, would CRT be better off?

Would stopping all but minimal maintenance save more than the loss of boater licence fee income?

How does the Basy get on? No boat licence income to speak of (well hardly any boats), and a thriving canal for dog walkers, nature lovers etc. 

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29 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

More seriously though, if boaters really are no longer wanted on the system and we all faded away, would CRT be better off?

Would stopping all but minimal maintenance save more than the loss of boater licence fee income?

How does the Basy get on? No boat licence income to speak of (well hardly any boats), and a thriving canal for dog walkers, nature lovers etc. 

Financially better off, yes, maybe, the cost of boating (maintenance, enforcement etc etc) is greater than the income from boating so if you take a modern narrow "bean counter" approach then the "boating business unit" is a loss maker. But boaters provide the entertainment and colour that makes the canals something special. When a cyclist goes past the visitors jump out of the way, when I go through a lock a little crowd forms(*), asks lots of questions and maybe takes a photo or two. I suspect quite a few canal visitors are here because they dream of owning a boat themselves one day.

and as for dog walkers...my own informal survey suggests that they are the most numerous canal users/visitors and they rarely get a mention.

Maybe this is how CaRT get that huge visitor number, its footfall innit, and dogs have four!

* and if I go through a lock in the Ellesmere Port museum and get firmly wedged by a huge log in the lock then a HUGE crowd forms ?

.............Dave

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3 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

It is rubbish isn't it?

Did they spend two minutes knocking up a sketch of that and the rest of the time and money in the pub?

I don’t think we know how much was actually spent on the design do we, it may not have been much at all. The main spend on the rebranding is presumably the new uniforms, and vinyl stickers to go over all the swan logos which in turn are over the bullrushes logos.

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4 minutes ago, john6767 said:

I don’t think we know how much was actually spent on the design do we, it may not have been much at all. The main spend on the rebranding is presumably the new uniforms, and vinyl stickers to go over all the swan logos which in turn are over the bullrushes logos.

The main spend on the rebranding will not be the stickers but the manhours applying them, manhours taken away from more pressing matters.

As an example of more pressing matters, CRT have accepted that newly introduced pawl stops on paddle gear are an unwelcome and even dangerous addition and they will fit no more new ones, BUT they cannot afford the manhours to remove existing ones.

George

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2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

More seriously though, if boaters really are no longer wanted on the system and we all faded away, would CRT be better off?

Would stopping all but minimal maintenance save more than the loss of boater licence fee income?

How does the Basy get on? No boat licence income to speak of (well hardly any boats), and a thriving canal for dog walkers, nature lovers etc. 

Basingstoke Canal is funded by Surrey and Hampshire County Councils.

Often you have to wait years for funds to be available, e.g. Deepcut Locks ere closed for years until fairly recently.

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59 minutes ago, john6767 said:

I don’t think we know how much was actually spent on the design do we, it may not have been much at all. The main spend on the rebranding is presumably the new uniforms, and vinyl stickers to go over all the swan logos which in turn are over the bullrushes logos.

I suspect the problem is that far too little was spent on it. People with skill are justifiably well paid in this as in any other expertise. Trouble is, it is easy fro those without such skill think that 'any fool can do it'. Then, too many try!

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1 hour ago, john6767 said:

I don’t think we know how much was actually spent on the design do we, it may not have been much at all. The main spend on the rebranding is presumably the new uniforms, and vinyl stickers to go over all the swan logos which in turn are over the bullrushes logos.

£60,000 was the figure given by one waterway manager for logo design and £2m for the re-branding.


 

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1 hour ago, furnessvale said:

The main spend on the rebranding will not be the stickers but the manhours applying them, manhours taken away from more pressing matters.

As an example of more pressing matters, CRT have accepted that newly introduced pawl stops on paddle gear are an unwelcome and even dangerous addition and they will fit no more new ones, BUT they cannot afford the manhours to remove existing ones.

George

The sensible option would be to put a box of stickers and in vans and workshops and just replace signage as work gets done. 

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1 hour ago, furnessvale said:

The main spend on the rebranding will not be the stickers but the manhours applying them, manhours taken away from more pressing matters.

As an example of more pressing matters, CRT have accepted that newly introduced pawl stops on paddle gear are an unwelcome and even dangerous addition and they will fit no more new ones, BUT they cannot afford the manhours to remove existing ones.

George

Would let they not use volunteers to do that, as with the last rebranding.

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46 minutes ago, john6767 said:

Would let they not use volunteers to do that, as with the last rebranding.

From the few comments posted on C&RT's volunteers facebook page before being deleted they might have a problem with that ...

On the other hand it seems that volunteers have been invited to a picnic on the 22nd May to celebrate the launch so might be won over.

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2 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

From the few comments posted on C&RT's volunteers facebook page before being deleted they might have a problem with that ...

On the other hand it seems that volunteers have been invited to a picnic on the 22nd May to celebrate the launch so might be won over.

Where’s the picnic? I like picnics. 

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5 hours ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

£60,000 was the figure given by one waterway manager for logo design and £2m for the re-branding.


 

I'd be surprised if the logo and rebranding were two separate exercises. Such things are usually done hand in hand.

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What I and I suspect most Boaters are interested in is that if this rebranding leads to any Change in Direction , has anyone read any IWA comment on this makeover ? I have always found it hard to see the attraction of the Canals for the average Man and Woman in the street , yes they appreciate having them there for a walk or an hour spent fishing , they aren't keen however in opening their Wallet for their upkeep and thus far CRT haven't persuaded them to do so in significant number . Will a rebrand solve this ?

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