Buying a Narrowboat

[Jacobyte]

Hello, I would like to know about what owners of narrow boats think between buying privately or buying through a boat brokerages, which way is best way to buy a boat ?

Any info would be helpful, Thanks.

[rusty69]

For me, it would be more about the boat rather than who was selling it,be it broker or private sale. 

[Traveller]

Agree with rusty69, this should all be mostly about the boat and not who is selling it. I have bought both privately and through a broker, both went well. What first drove me in any given direction was the boat - it was what I wanted.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Traveller

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Traveller said:

Agree with rusty68

Hey why have you deducted a foot? 

[Sea Dog]

3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Hey why have you deducted a foot? 

Have you lost a button?

[Traveller]

5 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Hey why have you deducted a foot? 

Not now. Post corrected - sorry :-(

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Sea Dog said:

Have you lost a button?

I was rather partial to that foot. Now I'll have to hop everywhere. 

Sorry, sorry. Back on topic...... 

[Dr Bob]

A broker should give you more protection in the purchase but it doesn't work out that way. They make the process easier for you but it can slow it down.....but the majority of boats for sale are via brokers so you have to be prepared to go that direction.

[mrsmelly]

As others have said the boat dictates where and how you buy. Personaly I avoid brokers if I can but sometimes have bought through them. There are Brokers and BROKERS several of them are quite simply abysmal. I vastly prefer dealing with the organ grinder rather than the monkey.

Edited April 22, 2018 by mrsmelly

[Johny London]

I wouldn't fancy handing over 30k+ to someone on a river bank that says it's their boat. If visiting a brokerage you can view a few in one go, if you are still at the research stage. But like others say - I don't think even from a broker you can be 100% safe.

[Jacobyte]

Thanks for the info, I  am at the research stage,  and what I gathered so far here is it's the boat, not who sells it is the most important part, I just find it difficult trusting strangers with my money either private or broker and don't wish to make a costly mistake , are there a list of brokers on here that others have used in the past that are trustworthy ? Has for buying privately guess you have to trust the person owns the boat there selling and check any history of the boat if available to view and sales receipt.

Thanks, Mike.

[LadyG]

If private buying, then I would ask for proof of ownership including some receipts over the last few years. If these are not readily available, I would walk away.

I would INSIST on a Sale of Goods certificate when I transfer ownership, and I would use bank transfer of some kind [banks can be very intransigent about this sort of thing].

Brokers who are members of the British Marine Trades Association comply with their guidelines.

Most brokers will ring fence your money, which makes your transaction safer.

The thing is, that if you hand over 10% deposit subject to survey or subject to making the final payment, you  risk losing ALL your deposit if you decide to withdraw from the contract.   If for example, your surveyor, on the day recommends that essential work is required, this may well not be enough to negotiate a new offer, its a grey area, so you need to be clear about this before you instruct your surveyor.

Vendors or vendors broker may offer a recent survey, another can of worms, possibly.  

Others on the forum are better placed to advise, this is my understanding of purchasing problems. Of course, most transactions will be smooth, but in my recent life, if things can go wrong, they will go wrong

 

Edited April 23, 2018 by LadyG

[cuthound]

The above is sound advice when using a broker as well.

The main risk when buying via a broker is that the broker goes bust after you have paid them, but before they have paid the seller.

It has happened in the past but is pretty rare.

All of the big brokers such as ABNB, Rugby Boats, GHBS, Braunston, Whilton etc use client accounts to supposedly protect your money.

More common concerns when buying from brokers are the percentage cost of repairs needed to reject the sale without losing your deposit, and, the broker failing to tell you that he actualy owns the boat.

In all cases when buying from a broker insist on using your own surveyor (after asking for recommendations on here) rather than using one on the list provided by the broker.

[MtB]

On 22/04/2018 at 08:46, Dr Bob said:

A broker should give you more protection in the purchase but it doesn't work out that way.

 

22 hours ago, Johny London said:

I wouldn't fancy handing over 30k+ to someone on a river bank that says it's their boat.

 

The fist post is correct, but as illustrated by the second, people generally feel buying through a broker provides some some of imaginary protection against fraud. Simply not always the case. Brokers have no better tools at their disposal to check ownership of a boat given to them to sell as you do as a private buyer, so Mr London is fooling himself in preferring to hand over 30k+ to a broker. 

Brokers however are rarely in any hurry to point out to potential buyers that they offer no protection against fraudulent sales, as it suits them just fine to make the process of buying a boat seem as 'formal' as possible and to echo the process of buying a house. Hence all the fuss about surveys too. 

[WotEver]

I keep reading about all these folk who don’t own the boat selling it to some poor unsuspecting buyer. Does anyone actually know of any occasion where this has happened?

[MtB]

It might be the case that the more responsible brokers carry some sort of insurance protection against them inadvertently selling a stolen boat, but it is not mandatory and anyone hoping to be getting this protection by buying via a broker must ask the broker. A stream of weasel words instead of a 'yes' will allow them to draw their conclusion. 

2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I keep reading about all these folk who don’t own the boat selling it to some poor unsuspecting buyer. Does anyone actually know of any occasion where this has happened?

 

I suspect the question crops up early in any quest to buy a boat, before the poster has been out and looked at any. Otherwise the need to deal with whoever happens to be selling the boat you want becomes obvious. 

 

[LadyG]

The point is that there is a risk in every transaction, whether house or boat or buying a Cuppa Soup at Sainsbury.

I have seen blatant scammers on Ebay, and on A.Duck, they live in hope of some sort of return for their efforts. They drop you like a stone when challenged and usually disappear in to the ether.

 

 

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

The point is that there is a risk in every transaction, whether house or boat or buying a Cuppa Soup at Sainsbury.

 

You're right. Some of my Cuppa Soup purchases have gone terribly wrong due to me using Sainsury's instead of a broker.

[LadyG]

5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

You're right. Some of my Cuppa Soup purchases have gone terribly wrong due to me using Sainsury's instead of a broker.

... but Sainsbury are acting as a broker/intermediary  twixt you and Nestle International of PO Box 123XYZ Switzerland.

Edited April 23, 2018 by LadyG

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

... but Sainsbury are acting as a broker/intermediary  twixt you and Nestle International of PO Box 123XYZ Switzerland.

 

No they are not. Nestle say they sold the Cuppa Soup packet to Sainsbury's, so my contract is with Sainsbury's. 

In the case of a boat, the broker never owns the boat. 

(If they do own it, then they re not selling in their capacity as a broker.)

[kawaton]

Many of the negatives about buying from a broker surely also apply to buying from a private seller. 

Who owns the boat, going bust/disappearing with your cash, not declaring work that needs doing etc etc

 

However, a good broker has a reputation to uphold - ABNB/Rugby/Braunston etc are all respectable and have earnt that reputation. 

They also do require some evidence that the seller owns the boat.

I would much prefer to buy from a broker than privately, as a private seller for the relatively uneducated like me, presents more risks I feel.

I might be wrong about this, but its a gut feeling and one I struggle to ignore.

 

Totally accept that for those highly experienced boat owners whether its private or via a brokerage, its only the boat that matters. 

But for me I struggle to feel comfortable buying privately

[MtB]

1 minute ago, kawaton said:

Many of the negatives about buying from a broker surely also apply to buying from a private seller. 

Who owns the boat, going bust/disappearing with your cash, not declaring work that needs doing etc etc

 

However, a good broker has a reputation to uphold - ABNB/Rugby/Braunston etc are all respectable and have earnt that reputation. 

They also do require some evidence that the seller owns the boat.

I would much prefer to buy from a broker than privately, as a private seller for the relatively uneducated like me, presents more risks I feel.

I might be wrong about this, but its a gut feeling and one I struggle to ignore.

 

Totally accept that for those highly experienced boat owners whether its private or via a brokerage, its only the boat that matters. 

But for me I struggle to feel comfortable buying privately

 

Yes, totally understand, and this is exactly the reason so many brokers exist. Most people feel the way you do.

But few of your reasons stand up to critical analysis. Inexperienced buyers are as unlikely to go checking out which are the 'respected' brokers and which are not, as they are to ignore their unjustified 'gut feelings'. 

[Johny London]

I just think that if someone is trying to sell a boat they don't own, the likely hood is that the have a certain amount of access to it and/or know the owners movements. They could try and pull a fast one flogging it on the towpath - but taking it to a brokerage, doing a certain amount of paperwork and leaving it there for any length of time could be much more difficult. 

[MtB]

15 minutes ago, Johny London said:

I just think that if someone is trying to sell a boat they don't own, the likely hood is that the have a certain amount of access to it and/or know the owners movements. They could try and pull a fast one flogging it on the towpath - but taking it to a brokerage, doing a certain amount of paperwork and leaving it there for any length of time could be much more difficult. 

Ownership of boats often is not always 'black and white', and I have no idea how brokers go about checking it.

The classic situation is a couple jointly own a boat, they split up and one party flogs the boat. This looks totally legit to the broker as the bloke did all the administration and his name only is registered with CRT. How would the broker reveal or discover that the boat was actually jointly owned with his (ex) wife?

Answer... the broker will never know and the ex-wife could surface at any time and demand the boat back. How would buying via a broker protect you against this?

[Tumshie]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Ownership of boats often is not always 'black and white', and I have no idea how brokers go about checking it.

The classic situation is a couple jointly own a boat, they split up and one party flogs the boat. This looks totally legit to the broker as the bloke did all the administration and his name only is registered with CRT. How would the broker reveal or discover that the boat was actually jointly owned with his (ex) wife?

Answer... the broker will never know and the ex-wife could surface at any time and demand the boat back. How would buying via a broker protect you against this?

Note to self : never getting married.