Alternator Problems

[Dr Bob]

7 minutes ago, WotEver said:

 

There are several folks who repair alternators. Our very own Snibs is one. Cox electrical in Atherstone is another. Repair will be considerably cheaper than replacement. 

Agreed. Midland are charging £350 for a 90A replacement. Balmar wanted £650. I was told Beta ones were £200 ish. Repair is the answer if bust...but what is broken if it produces 40A at 13.6V? Would one of the phases going give that effect?..or is it the internal regulator that has gone? ...or something else? 

[DasDsm]

4 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Agreed. Midland are charging £350 for a 90A replacement. Balmar wanted £650. I was told Beta ones were £200 ish. Repair is the answer if bust...but what is broken if it produces 40A at 13.6V? Would one of the phases going give that effect?..or is it the internal regulator that has gone? ...or something else? 

Beta are quoting £278+VAT for the like replacement (14V 175A IA1196 ALTERNATOR 11.203.340541).  Although I will be checking with them if its regulated to 14v or as some other people have mentioned in previous posts to 14.6v

As I'm betting on this being the problem if in the end it doesn't turn out to be that I can just return it for a refund minus postage.

[WotEver]

13 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

what is broken if it produces 40A at 13.6V? Would one of the phases going give that effect?

I believe so. @Sir Nibble or @Tony Brooks know a lot more about alternators than me though. 

[cuthound]

Have you measured the voltage on each alternator a d battery with a digital multimeter? 

The analogue panel voltmeters are notoriously inaccurate.

[nicknorman]

Right, there is a lot of misinformation on this thread. On our boat we have a Beta 43 with a 175 A Iskra alternator and a Mastershunt. Normally on starting we get 150A or more on the Mastershunt current indication. It drops to around 100-120A fairly quickly. Once the batteries approach fully charged (and the Mastershunt is pretty good if set up correctly) the current will of course fall right off and the voltage will reach 14.5 - 14.6v.

So there are only two possibilities, one that the alternator is defective, the other that there is a high resistance connection between the alternator and the Mastershunt. The latter seems unlikely but easily checked by measuring the voltage actually on the alternator connections. If it is still 13.whatever at low currents, the alternator is faulty.

One thing is certain, it is nothing to do with the batteries. It is nothing to do with split charge systems. It is nothing to do with the engine alternator nor engine alternator voltage showing on the engine instrument panel. Ok, three certain things.

Edited April 22, 2018 by nicknorman

[WotEver]

49 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

So there are only two possibilities, one that the alternator is defective, the other that there is a high resistance connection between the alternator and the Mastershunt.

OP stated that he measured the (low) voltage at the alternator. Hence my repeated assertion that he has an alternator fault. 

2 hours ago, cuthound said:

Have you measured the voltage on each alternator a d battery with a digital multimeter? 

The analogue panel voltmeters are notoriously inaccurate.

Yes he has. 

[nicknorman]

16 minutes ago, WotEver said:

OP stated that he measured the (low) voltage at the alternator. Hence my repeated assertion that he has an alternator fault. 

Ok fair enough. Duff alternator it is then.

[DasDsm]

Thanks all, really helpful to confirm my suspicions. 

New alternator will be ordered tomorrow. 

Btw.. I don't know if there are usually always the same belts with a Beta 43 and 175amp alternator but having trouble finding a decent place to get a spare. Looking at the current one it's coded as 6PK1170 So any advice on stockists would be welcome. 

Thanks again all. 

I'll update once new one fitted. 

Duncan

[WotEver]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/6PK1170-Alternator-Poly-V-Serpentine-Belt/dp/B01EZPNPXE

[Chewbacka]

If I remember correctly the 6pk means it’s a poly v belt and 1170 is the length in mm.  So if you have a reasonable amount of adjustment then a few mm either way will probably fit ok.  Google will give you a good selection as will many motor factors.  A quick google shows Honda and Audi both use an 1173 belt.

[Dr Bob]

28 minutes ago, WotEver said:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/6PK1170-Alternator-Poly-V-Serpentine-Belt/dp/B01EZPNPXE

Eeeek , 3 to 4 weeks delivery. I need to get one of these as well. I will look for other sources.

[BruceinSanity]

8 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Eeeek , 3 to 4 weeks delivery. I need to get one of these as well. I will look for other sources.

I'm sure Beta will supply one, at a price!

[nicknorman]

I just ordered all 3 belts (we have a travelpower so a second polyvee belt), 2 oil filters, a fuel filter and a thermostat gasket all for £105 incl delivery, direct from Beta. Came quickly. Doesn’t seem too bad.

Edit: just looked at the invoice, £19.95 for the belt and £5.90 for delivery + Vat.

Edited April 23, 2018 by nicknorman

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

just looked at the invoice, £19.95 for the belt and £5.90 for delivery + Vat.

£9.01 delivered from that Amazon seller for anyone who’s not in a rush. 

[nicknorman]

Just now, WotEver said:

£9.01 delivered from that Amazon seller for anyone who’s not in a rush. 

But what about the quality? The belts last 1500 hrs or more so as a boating expense, £25 or whatever is inconsequential whereas an early failure of a belt leaving one with no domestic power is a “big deal”. The Amazon belt seems unbranded, the Beta supplied ones are Hutchinson, made in EU.

[nicknorman]

If you want cheaper, I’d go for this on eBay, Gates is a top brand.: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gates-Drive-Belt-For-Audi-Citroen-Nissan-Peugeot-Renault-Toyota-Volvo-6PK1173/172786451711?hash=item283ae004ff:g:fk0AAOSw6dNZb3h9

By the way, my belt is an 1175 and there’s plenty of adjustment so I think an 1173 would be fine to replace an 1170 unless the adjustment is very near the limit.

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

The Amazon belt seems unbranded,

Brand: DealMux. 

DealMux appears to be the Amazon importer of Chinese goods so point well made.  

[bizzard]

Wats wong with chinese belt. We sell roads and roads of belts of chinese makings, Tlouser never fall down in prublic, betta than blaces.  ?. We sell grobal.        Mr Gon Wong of Shanglow.  ?

[OldGoat]

 Try Bearing Boys

£7.20 plus VAT plus carriage - £3.95. Good quality stuff, have used them for years

Bearingboys .co.uk
 Oh one 603 720713

[Jess--]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

But what about the quality? The belts last 1500 hrs or more so as a boating expense, £25 or whatever is inconsequential whereas an early failure of a belt leaving one with no domestic power is a “big deal”. The Amazon belt seems unbranded, the Beta supplied ones are Hutchinson, made in EU.

Always keep a set of "used" belts on the boat that can replace a failed belt in minutes, just because a belt is new and from a decent make / supplier doesn't mean you are any less stuck if it snaps after 10 hours

[DasDsm]

Just to update:

I've swapped over the alternator for a new one from Beta and charging much better now and voltage has gone from 13.6 to 14.4 while charging.  The alternator was pretty covered in black carbon brush particles so looked like it was pretty worn.

Now what to do with the old one?  I'll probably look to get it refurbished and then see it on.

Thanks all for the help.

D

[Slim]

1 hour ago, DasDsm said:

Just to update:

I've swapped over the alternator for a new one from Beta and charging much better now and voltage has gone from 13.6 to 14.4 while charging.  The alternator was pretty covered in black carbon brush particles so looked like it was pretty worn.

Now what to do with the old one?  I'll probably look to get it refurbished and then see it on.

Thanks all for the help.

D

Just this moment picked upp on this topic. If you are still looking for someone in the watford area to overhaul your alternator i will  check out details of the person i've used a number of times over the years. Confirm and i will do it this èvening. 

 

Frank

[WotEver]

3 hours ago, DasDsm said:

I've swapped over the alternator for a new one from Beta and charging much better now and voltage has gone from 13.6 to 14.4 while charging

Cool

 

I bet the current has gone up a bit too. 

[bizzard]

It was in the bakers that she got an electric shock, when she trod on a bun and a currant ran up her leg.

[DasDsm]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

Cool

 

I bet the current has gone up a bit too. 

Yep that as well and stayed steady for a longer period before dropping.

2 hours ago, Slim said:

Just this moment picked upp on this topic. If you are still looking for someone in the watford area to overhaul your alternator i will  check out details of the person i've used a number of times over the years. Confirm and i will do it this èvening. 

 

Frank

Thanks Frank and be good to know the details to get the old one refurbished and maybe then keep as spare or sell on.

D