alastair1988 Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 Hi All I was wondering if there are any products like the Tesla Powerwall for boats? I like to get off grid and have a stable 240v elec on the boat without being on mains hook up. The powerwall looked great but Tesla wont look at boats yet. Any thoughts? Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess-- Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 (edited) Powerwall is effectively Charger --> Batteries --> Inverter all in a single case as you want to be off grid the charger would be no use so you end up with ??????? --> Batteries --> Inverter what you replace the ??????? with is up to you (generator & charger or Engine & alternator) at the end of the day you end up with the same situation as almost every other boater, you have to charge your batteries somehow regardless of whether you are using the power from the batteries to convert into mains power or just using it for 12v systems. at that point you have to question getting exotic batteries when in all likelihood you already have decent normal batteries on your boat and all thats really needed is an inverter and a sensible charging regime Edited April 20, 2018 by Jess-- 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenataomm Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 Try paraffin ....... Boom, Boom, Boom Esso Blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb Innisfree Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 I think the Powerwall can only be installed if it's permanently connected to the grid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 20, 2018 Report Share Posted April 20, 2018 2 hours ago, alastair1988 said: Hi All I was wondering if there are any products like the Tesla Powerwall for boats? I like to get off grid and have a stable 240v elec on the boat without being on mains hook up. The powerwall looked great but Tesla wont look at boats yet. Any thoughts? Thank you Any thoughts? Yes. You have a lot to learn, grasshopper. Getting a stable 240Vac supply on a boat is easy. Just buy an inverter. The hard bit is moderating your use of it and learning enough about batteries and battery charging to provide your inverter with enough power, without wrecking your batteries. There are no easy answers which is why that smart, nice Mr Musk is avoiding boats. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted April 21, 2018 Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 9 hours ago, alastair1988 said: Hi All I was wondering if there are any products like the Tesla Powerwall for boats? I like to get off grid and have a stable 240v elec on the boat without being on mains hook up. The powerwall looked great but Tesla wont look at boats yet. Any thoughts? Thank you Read this free book from Victron; https://www.victronenergy.com/orderbook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacka Posted April 21, 2018 Report Share Posted April 21, 2018 The power wall does not make power it stores it, probably from overnight charging when there is surplus power or by surplus solar power, and ‘releases’ it When demand is high. That is the killer problem for boats, especially in winter - there is no surplus power. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumshie Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 MtB: Yes. You have a lot to learn, Grasshopper..... So in the interests of being an eager grasshopper..... Every time a thread like this comes up I hope someone will mention a hybrid engine - I know, I know they're expense and only really suitable for new builds, I suppose - but I really wonder what they're like in real time. Ya know, in the wild! Just curious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 13 minutes ago, Tumshie said: MtB: Yes. You have a lot to learn, Grasshopper..... So in the interests of being an eager grasshopper..... Every time a thread like this comes up I hope someone will mention a hybrid engine - I know, I know they're expense and only really suitable for new builds, I suppose - but I really wonder what they're like in real time. Ya know, in the wild! Just curious! Stupidly complicated, and you can STILL only run it between 8am and 8pm to generate your leccy. So no further forward really. (Not that I have one!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacka Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 I have never seen the benefit of a hybrid engine, in a car maybe, but in a boat don’t see the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumshie Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 The only thing I know about hybrid engines is from reading this - http://www.hybrid-marine.co.uk/14.html They seem to be a bit like fight club - and the less people talk the more I want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Chewbacka said: I have never seen the benefit of a hybrid engine, in a car maybe, but in a boat don’t see the point. Agree. In a car a bigger engine is needed for the tiny amount of time the most power is needed, climbing a steep hill, traffic light grand prix etc. The rest of the time a tiny engoine is fine. A hybrid stores energy from a small efficient engine run under optimal conditions for when extra power is needed. A boat engine runs at pretty much the same speed nearly all the time and can be optimised for that. Jen Edited April 22, 2018 by Jen-in-Wellies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumshie Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said: A boat engine runs at pretty much the same speed nearly all the time and can be optimised for that. True, and I don't think the extra cost of the engine its self could ever be covered by the amount saved on diesel if you were cruising on electric - but I wondered how it would affect the day to day usage of power on the boat domestically. But I was just wondering, not planing for a sailaway project so I have no specific questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Tumshie said: True, and I don't think the extra cost of the engine its self could ever be covered by the amount saved on diesel if you were cruising on electric But but... there is NO saving on diesel. Fuel consumption is likely to be higher if anything, as you have to run the engine to run the generator to charge the batteries which then supply leccy to the motor that turns the prop. Several extra layers of energy losses it there compared to 'run the engine which turns the prop'. The whole thing is pointless. Or is there something making you think otherwise? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumshie Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said: Or is there something making you think otherwise? Nope nothing - I have no experience at all so Im just being curious - when I want to know stuff I'm usually pretty good at finding it and working out what I need to know but in this case there is very little to find and I didn't know if that was because they are new (ish) or a gimmick or if the people who have then just don't talk about them. I am, as they say, Switzerland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Tumshie said: True, and I don't think the extra cost of the engine its self could ever be covered by the amount saved on diesel if you were cruising on electric - but I wondered how it would affect the day to day usage of power on the boat domestically. But I was just wondering, not planing for a sailaway project so I have no specific questions. What Mike says above. Energy is energy and mostly coming from the diesel engine, so it will be running harder in diesel mode to charge the batts for the next stretch of electric mode and to charge them for domestic use overnight, the same as a conventional boat. They claim that lots of modern house appliances are more practical, but the extra energy to run them still comes from burning diesel. The only saving is if you plan your trip hopping from marina to marina with electric hook ups where grid energy is less than diesel generated electricity. I am in a marina most of the time, so when cruising I'd rather be bank side out in the wilds than sandwiched between boats again. I can see doing locks and tunnels in silence would be pretty cool. My boat is quite quiet with hospital silencer and engine room sound insulation and would love it to be completely silent. I just don't get that being worth many £1,000's extra. I suspect it would be a lot cheaper to build a boat with no engine and buy a horse for silent boating. Jen Edited April 22, 2018 by Jen-in-Wellies spellling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 Just now, Tumshie said: Nope nothing - I have no experience at all so Im just being curious - when I want to know stuff I'm usually pretty good at finding it and working out what I need to know but in this case there is very little to find and I didn't know if that was because they are new (ish) or a gimmick or if the people who have then just don't talk about them. Its an idea as old as electricity itself. Very simple concept but there is no benefit in a boat, so this is why no-one has one, and why there is so little discussion. There is feck all to discuss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 Small children would be cheaper than a horse for hauling a boat with no noisy engine, but they would be even louder! Jen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumshie Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said: There is feck all to discuss! Fair doos - but until you didn't discuss it I didn't know that so I appreciate you and Jen-in-Wellies taking the time to not discuss it with me. 2 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said: Small children would be cheaper than a horse for hauling a boat with no noisy engine, but they would be even louder! Jen Horses are also way less scary than small children. Edited April 22, 2018 by Tumshie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Tumshie said: Fair doos - but until you didn't discuss it I didn't know that so I appreciate you and Jen-in-Wellies taking the time to not discuss it with me. You're most welcome! Its hard to find much to say about them after so comprehensively demolishing the very idea 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumshie Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 Just now, Mike the Boilerman said: You're most welcome! Its hard to find much to say about them after so comprehensively demolishing the very idea Yes - but you did it so well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Tumshie said: Yes - but you did it so well. Anything to oblige such a charming potato bogle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 22 minutes ago, Tumshie said: Fair doos - but until you didn't discuss it I didn't know that so I appreciate you and Jen-in-Wellies taking the time to not discuss it with me. Horses are also way less scary than small children. How about hamsters? A couple of hundred in cages on the roof with little wheels. Teach 'em to sleep in the day. At night the wheels go round and charge the batteries. During day, the solar kicks in. Need to oil the spindles well to get a good nights sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 28 minutes ago, Tumshie said: Horses are also way less scary than small children. They also complain a lot less if you try and feed them only with oats. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumshie Posted April 22, 2018 Report Share Posted April 22, 2018 29 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said: Anything to oblige such a charming potato bogle... Thank you kind sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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