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Barrus Shire - Engine Overheating


RichM

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For some reason my engine temperature warning buzzer sounds constantly as soon as the main isolator is switched on, even when the engine is stone cold. The warning/red light on the engine temperature gauge is also illuminated. - Again, engine is stone cold. 

Any idea how I can stop this buzzer? It's very annoying!

Cheers

Rich

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45 minutes ago, RichM said:

For some reason my engine temperature warning buzzer sounds constantly as soon as the main isolator is switched on, even when the engine is stone cold. The warning/red light on the engine temperature gauge is also illuminated. - Again, engine is stone cold. 

Any idea how I can stop this buzzer? It's very annoying!

Cheers

Rich

The multiplug from the engine to the panel is usually the cause of these type of  symptoms. Pull it apart and spray with  switch cleaner preferably or WD40 will do at a push. 

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Ok so it transpires that the engine is overheating, only that the buzzer doesn't sound until the engine is cold....

It's an old engine but was running OK until immediately after I had my exhaust silencer replaced. I am moored up and decided to run the engine just above tickover for nearly an hour and it began to overheat though oddly the skin tank is cold.

Any thoughts?

Cheers

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1 hour ago, RichM said:

Ok so it transpires that the engine is overheating, only that the buzzer doesn't sound until the engine is cold....

It's an old engine but was running OK until immediately after I had my exhaust silencer replaced. I am moored up and decided to run the engine just above tickover for nearly an hour and it began to overheat though oddly the skin tank is cold.

Any thoughts?

Cheers

Thermostat stuck closed maybe.

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On 21/04/2018 at 16:45, WotEver said:

Is the water pump working? Coolant level normal? Otherwise it’s probably an airlock. 

Not sure how to check water pump though it does appear I have coolant circulation issues. The hose leading into the skin tank is also cold even when the engine temperature is hot. Coolant level was normal until I removed the bleed screw from the skin tank, so I topped it up again but issue remains.

19 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Is your domestic water getting hot?

No

23 hours ago, Flyboy said:

Thermostat stuck closed maybe.

Not sure how to check

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Quickest way to check if it’s a thermostat issue will be to remove it. You can stick it in a pan of water and see if it opens at 80 degrees or whatever but if you remove it and the problem goes away then there’s hardly any point in testing it. 

Doesnt the Barrus Shire have a take-off for the calorifier that bypasses the thermostat? If so and that’s not getting hot as you said then I’m leaning more to an airlock or water pump issue. I presume your fan belts are all ok?

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The Barrus Shire does have two thermostats. The 1st thermostat opens at 71 degrees and the hot water is fed to the calorifier. When the water in the calorifier reaches full temperature the 2nd. 82 degree thermostat opens to send the water to the skin tank.

The OP states that the skin tank remains cold which suggests to me that the 2nd. 82 degree thermostat may be  possibly stuck closed. 

23 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Doesnt the Barrus Shire have a take-off for the calorifier that bypasses the thermostat?

No, it's not bypassed. The 71 degree thermostat must open first.

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3 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

The Barrus Shire does have two thermostats. The 1st thermostat opens at 71 degrees and the hot water is fed to the calorifier. When the water in the calorifier reaches full temperature the 2nd. 82 degree thermostat opens to send the water to the skin tank.

The OP states that the skin tank remains cold which suggests to me that the 2nd. 82 degree thermostat may be  possibly stuck closed. 

No, it's not bypassed. The 71 degree thermostat must open first.

Surly its unlikely both are stuck, no cooling and no hot water. I would go for an air lock especially as it required topping up after bleeding the skin tank

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37 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Surly its unlikely both are stuck, no cooling and no hot water. I would go for an air lock especially as it required topping up after bleeding the skin tank

I didn't suggest that they were both stuck, I said that because the OP said that the skin tank remained cold, the 82 degree thermostat  may be stuck. It would help if the Op told us if the calorifier gets hot. 

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18 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

He said it didn't in post 8

Sorry, I missed that. In that case it is more likely to be the 71 degree thermostat that's stuck. If this one doesn't open, no water will flow to the skin tank or calorifer.

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33 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

Sorry, I missed that. In that case it is more likely to be the 71 degree thermostat that's stuck. If this one doesn't open, no water will flow to the skin tank or calorifer.

Really?  So for the main cooling system they’re effectively in series?

So OP can try removing the 71 degree stat and see if that makes a difference. If it doesn’t then we’re back into airlock territory. 

Or pump. We still don’t know if all belts are good. 

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2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Really?  So for the main cooling system they’re effectively in series?

So OP can try removing the 71 degree stat and see if that makes a difference. If it doesn’t then we’re back into airlock territory. 

Or pump. We still don’t know if all belts are good. 

Yes, that's correct. The system gives quicker calorifier heating as well as quicker engine warm up.  The twin thermostat system is not fitted on the Shire 33 & 35 models. The OP has not stated which engine he has though. I am assuming he has the more common Shire 40 or 45 model.

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2 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

Yes, that's correct. The system gives quicker calorifier heating as well as quicker engine warm up.  The twin thermostat system is not fitted on the Shire 33 & 35 models. The OP has not stated which engine he has though. I am assuming he has the more common Shire 40 or 45 model.

Yep, as covered in page 28 of the above manual. 

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16 hours ago, WotEver said:

Really?  So for the main cooling system they’re effectively in series?

So OP can try removing the 71 degree stat and see if that makes a difference. If it doesn’t then we’re back into airlock territory. 

Or pump. We still don’t know if all belts are good. 

 

16 hours ago, WotEver said:

Nice simple little diagram of the two stats shown on page 29 of the manual...

https://www.barrus.co.uk/media/1348/rdg603a8-issue-1-shire-14-canal-boat-complete-manual-30-35-38-40-45-50.pdf

Thanks, had a look at the diagram but I'm still not clear where the 71 degree thermostat is. 

16 hours ago, Flyboy said:

Yes, that's correct. The system gives quicker calorifier heating as well as quicker engine warm up.  The twin thermostat system is not fitted on the Shire 33 & 35 models. The OP has not stated which engine he has though. I am assuming he has the more common Shire 40 or 45 model.

It's a Barrus Shire 30

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54 minutes ago, RichM said:

 

Thanks, had a look at the diagram but I'm still not clear where the 71 degree thermostat is. 

It's a Barrus Shire 30

The Barrus 30 only has a single thermostat which simplifies the issue. Find the big pipe that comes from the front of the cylinder head, the thermostat will be under a 2 bolted housing. You won't have to drain the whole system to remove it. Disconnect the large rubber hose, then the two bolts & remove the housing to expose the thermostat. Make sure when replacing it you get the right way round. If you have to fit a new one, you may have to drill a 2mm hole in the thermostat flange, this aids bleeding of air. Just compare with the old one. Barrus do this mod. but is not always present on replacements.

If you have the manual it will show the thermostat position on page15   https://www.barrus.co.uk/divisions/marine/diesel/shire/downloads/shire-manuals/

Edited by Flyboy
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My barrus shire 38 only has one stat, as said earlier take out stat put in a lot of water and heat on stove until nearly boiling and you should see it open, if not but a new one, don't be tempted to run it without one as you will not get up to normal temp.

Neil.

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On 20/04/2018 at 20:50, RichM said:

For some reason my engine temperature warning buzzer sounds constantly as soon as the main isolator is switched on, even when the engine is stone cold. The warning/red light on the engine temperature gauge is also illuminated. - Again, engine is stone cold. 

Any idea how I can stop this buzzer? It's very annoying!

Cheers

Rich

OK, so late to the party but been boating in Holland.

Ignoring the overheating for a moment.

Rich seems an experienced boater with loads of posts so we can assume he knows the difference between the battery isolator and the ignition switch.  So unless Barrus have done something odd with the wiring of their engines so the ignition switch must have been left turned on when the isolator was last opened or there is some kind of switch or just possibly an alternator fault. To be otherwise would mean that the overheat warning lamp & buzzer would have to be energised all the time the isolator is on and the ignition off.

It seems to me that the answer to the question is first of all turn the ignition switch off because that would normally isolate all the warning lamps, gauges and buzzer.

Still ignoring the over heating, even if Barrus are providing a permanent feed to the overheat warning circuit the first thing to suspect would be the temperature sender/switch because they tend to be the least reliable part of the circuit. This is where Dr Bob's infra red thingy would be useful but even so if a temperature warning is given on a "stone cold" engine then the sender must be suspect. As Brian (I think) said, pull the wire off the sender to check.

I feel there may be more than one fault here and until Rich tells us why he thinks it is overheating I reserve judgement.

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6 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

OK, so late to the party but been boating in Holland.

Ignoring the overheating for a moment.

Rich seems an experienced boater with loads of posts so we can assume he knows the difference between the battery isolator and the ignition switch.  So unless Barrus have done something odd with the wiring of their engines so the ignition switch must have been left turned on when the isolator was last opened or there is some kind of switch or just possibly an alternator fault. To be otherwise would mean that the overheat warning lamp & buzzer would have to be energised all the time the isolator is on and the ignition off.

It seems to me that the answer to the question is first of all turn the ignition switch off because that would normally isolate all the warning lamps, gauges and buzzer.

Still ignoring the over heating, even if Barrus are providing a permanent feed to the overheat warning circuit the first thing to suspect would be the temperature sender/switch because they tend to be the least reliable part of the circuit. This is where Dr Bob's infra red thingy would be useful but even so if a temperature warning is given on a "stone cold" engine then the sender must be suspect. As Brian (I think) said, pull the wire off the sender to check.

I feel there may be more than one fault here and until Rich tells us why he thinks it is overheating I reserve judgement.

Looking at the Barrus wiring diagram, everything on the panel is powered up via the ignition switch. The only possible path for a permanent  positive supply is via the alternator regulator and its warning light. Very unlikely I would say, but remotely possible.

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

On 24/04/2018 at 09:49, Tony Brooks said:

OK, so late to the party but been boating in Holland.

Ignoring the overheating for a moment.

Rich seems an experienced boater with loads of posts so we can assume he knows the difference between the battery isolator and the ignition switch.  So unless Barrus have done something odd with the wiring of their engines so the ignition switch must have been left turned on when the isolator was last opened or there is some kind of switch or just possibly an alternator fault. To be otherwise would mean that the overheat warning lamp & buzzer would have to be energised all the time the isolator is on and the ignition off.

It seems to me that the answer to the question is first of all turn the ignition switch off because that would normally isolate all the warning lamps, gauges and buzzer.

Still ignoring the over heating, even if Barrus are providing a permanent feed to the overheat warning circuit the first thing to suspect would be the temperature sender/switch because they tend to be the least reliable part of the circuit. This is where Dr Bob's infra red thingy would be useful but even so if a temperature warning is given on a "stone cold" engine then the sender must be suspect. As Brian (I think) said, pull the wire off the sender to check.

I feel there may be more than one fault here and until Rich tells us why he thinks it is overheating I reserve judgement.

 

I'm no expert with engines or boat electrics, I prefer to fix things using a keyboard if you catch my drift but if it's something simple I will take a look myself. ? Otherwise I look for a decent engineer to do the work but finding one willing to do the work in this neck of the woods is easier said than done or so it seems! 

 

The warning buzzer no longer sounds though the gauge is working and indicated the engine temperature reached 100ºC. I think you're right in that there's something amiss with the warning buzzer system so I will need to look at that after. 

When I first became aware of the overheating issue, I saw steam rising from the engine block and the coolant within the expansion tank was boiling... Furthermore, the hoses leading into and out of the skin tank were cold as was the skin tank itself. Also, the water within the calorifier after a 90 min trip down the cut was cold. Oddly though and perhaps coincidently, this issue only arose immediately after having my exhaust silencer replaced, whereby the engineer spent hours trying to unseize the exhaust from the hull of the boat. I suspected he may have hit a hose and caused a coolant leak but I don't appear to have a leak...

 

I have not had the opportunity to get my hands dirty until late this afternoon but I have now removed the thermostat from its housing and put it in a saucepan to test. There was no activity despite waiting for the pan to boil so it looks like it's a dud. 

 

Does anyone know the part number for the thermostat? The engine is a Barrus Shire 30 1653 model. 

 

Cheers

 

Rich

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