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Composting Toilets Not Allowed In Marina.


Alan de Enfield

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8 hours ago, peterboat said:

You lot have no idea I empty my composting toilet every 3 months not twice weekly like your cassettes or every couple of weeks like your pump outs!! god how much work and pain you must all go through glug glug better go to the shower to wash all this shit off me :giggles:

I bet the liquid waste is dumped a lot more often.  Is it always into an Elsan disposal point?

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19 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

I bet the liquid waste is dumped a lot more often.  Is it always into an Elsan disposal point?

No waste is poured on the grass, I have done it for 6 years and the grass is very green, even then its only once a week-one and a half weeks, toilet is sprayed with lemon juice diluted to clean the bowl

Gee Whiz: Human Urine Is Shown to Be an Effective ...

www.scientificamerican.com/article/human-urine
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  • 4 weeks later...
On 20/04/2018 at 14:15, Mike the Boilerman said:

I suspect the objection is plastic bags of only ‘lightly’ composed poo in the general rubbish bins


That was my objection in discussing this topic. But everyone (and I include people who do not and have not owned an eco toilet) told me I was being silly. Dogshit and napppies all go in the bins, and going forward while the pressure on landfill is great, sawdust and shit are relatively benign elements to add to landfill, and may even help with breaking things down.

 

The pressure going forward on our sewage system is more pressing, so I'm told.

 

Double bagged in biodegradable plastic, they won't make the bin smell much more than it does already. I was thinking, "But it's so antisocial, what if a bag pops in a rubbish truck?" But everyone just said, the crushing goes on deep inside the vehicle and nothing would be likely to be flung out, and that rubbish trucks smell like hell either way, it's not going to make a noticeable difference.

 

And, while I still harbour my doubts, that all sounded like sense to me.

I don't own an eco toilet - I have a cassette. But I'm thinking about it. I know some savvy, old school boaters (not noobs like me) who are, too...

 

Edited by captain flint
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On 20/04/2018 at 23:46, peterboat said:

No waste is poured on the grass.

I'm wondering if there should be a comma in there. There is a great difference between

- No waste is poured on the grass

and

- No, waste is poured on the grass.

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51 minutes ago, Athy said:

I'm wondering if there should be a comma in there. There is a great difference between

- No waste is poured on the grass

and

- No, waste is poured on the grass.

The inspector, thought the teacher, is a fool. 

Edited by WotEver
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On 20/04/2018 at 23:18, Chewbacka said:

I bet the liquid waste is dumped a lot more often.  Is it always into an Elsan disposal point?

As far as I know according to environment agency guidelines on this, so long as it's a few meters away from any water source and into an area with vegetation, that is perfectly OK.

Dogs' wee eats away at grass etc - humans' doesn't. Worst that can happen is a slightly too high nitrate content for that area of soil, briefly.

 

Also worth noting that the urine of a healthy human is largely sterile. So I'm not entirely sure what the fuss is.

Although, of course, people should think about where they dump their urine in terms of being antisocial. I am sure it could smell for half an hour or so, probably good to put it a distance from towpaths etc

 

BTW I am not an evangelical composting loo person. Currently have a cassette. But I am interested in the issues around them.

A perfectly working, fancy dan pump out would be great, but I've seen (and smelled) boats where, at some point in the past, a seal corroded or something, that forever have a faint whiff of turd about them. And cassette's smell is unpleasant. The chemicals or the poo. That whiff that doesn't smell like toilets at all but which you know is toilets.

Boats I have been on with a well-installed and used separating toilet don't seem to smell at all, and don't need emptying that often. Doesn't seem a bad option

Edited by captain flint
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  • 1 year later...

At risk of re-igniting the topic (or perhaps just the resulting methane), a few marinas might have banned the use of composting/dessicating toilets, but the C&RT seem to be embracing the trend.

 

Under the heading of "Game of Thrones", the C&RT published an article containing the following:

 

"Composting toilets are increasing in popularity, particularly in areas with few facilities or very busy areas that suffer from frequently malfunctioning pump-out machines or Elsan units. Composting can be a great solution." 

 

They add:

 

"As the waste from a composting toilet may not have enough time to decompose sufficiently on board the boat before it needs emptying, this waste will still need to be disposed at an Elsan/sanitary station." "Liquids go into the Elsan unit and solids should be bagged in a nappy bag and placed in the domestic waste bins."

 

It would seem that the C&RT see the advantages of disposing of solid human waste at varying stages of decomposition directly into their own bins, even if to many the practice is distasteful. Clearly, human waste, composted or otherwise should have its own bin, but once at landfill, it is far less toxic to the environment than other non-recyclable household rubbish.

 

Perhaps the C&RT have decided that to increase the volume of solid human waste by 600% or more by adding valuable drinking water and then to tip it or pump it into a tank that they then have to pay to have pumped out, transported across the countryside and disposed of, is neither environmentally sustainable or cost effective.

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

"As the waste from a composting toilet may not have enough time to decompose sufficiently on board the boat before it needs emptying, this waste will still need to be disposed at an Elsan/sanitary station." "Liquids go into the Elsan unit and solids should be bagged in a nappy bag and placed in the domestic waste bins."

 

Is there something missing between these two sentences ?

If there isn't it doesn't make sense.

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I have tracked down the original article published by the C&RT and it confirms their impression that 'composting' toilets are becoming increasingly popular and that in response they are thinking of introducing 'poo' bins. In the mean time however, they require that the solids from composting toilets, composted or otherwise are double bagged and put in their domestic waste bins.

 

This is the extract as written: 

 

"As the waste from a composting toilet may not have enough time to decompose sufficiently on board the boat before it needs emptying, this waste will still need to be disposed at anElsan/sanitary station. With the increasing popularity of composting toilets, we are hoping to pilot a facility for solid waste from composting loos as part of the London Mooring Strategy but in the meantime liquids go into the Elsan unit and solids should be bagged in a nappy bag and placed in the domestic waste bins." 

 

There are so many advantages to composting/dessicating toilets both to the boat owner and to the C&RT and of course to the Environment Agency, that of course it will catch on. 

 

We conserve water by locking lock gates at 4pm and sharing locks where possible, but we are happy to flush hundreds of litres of precious drinking water down the toilet every week.

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49 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Is that not the 'normal' way (and has been for many years)

 

Maybe instead of saying put your 'human waste' in the general rubbish bin. they should introduce some larger 'dog waste bins'.

Some people refuse to believe that a composting toilet on a boat is simply shitting into a bag and throwing it away.....

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17 minutes ago, frangar said:

Some people refuse to believe that a composting toilet on a boat is simply shitting into a bag and throwing it away.....

Why refuse to believe it when doing just that results in all of the advantages of a composting loo, both to the boat owner and the authorities. The only difference is that the composting happens or is finished at the landfill site rather that on the boat. Everybody wins!

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5 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Why refuse to believe it when doing just that results in all of the advantages of a composting loo, both to the boat owner and the authorities. The only difference is that the composting happens or is finished at the landfill site rather that on the boat. Everybody wins!

Apart from the waste-handlers who have 'burst bags' of 'nasty-stuff' (following being squashed in the bin lorry) falling all over the place and contaminating the other waste.

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5 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Which of course isn't how waste handling works now and with dedicated bins, that risk vanishes.

 

 

Not if it’s put in with general waste as per most CRT waste facilities...a lot of waste is sorted post collection both for recycling and incineration. Human waste is classed as hazardous and requires special handling and permits. 

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On 20/04/2018 at 19:17, ditchcrawler said:

You do but not all dont. Just like some people with elsans look the other way when they empty it over the floor and pump outs use elsan disposal units where permitted and don't fix the hose end

..or get a kink in their flexi discharge hose??

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10 minutes ago, frangar said:

Not if it’s put in with general waste as per most CRT waste facilities...a lot of waste is sorted post collection both for recycling and incineration. Human waste is classed as hazardous and requires special handling and permits. 

Of course, that must be why the C&RT recommend that you do just that.

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Just now, Bargebuilder said:

Of course, that must be why the C&RT recommend that you do just that.

But I suspect that they expect the waste to be fully composted when it does indeed become inert....the time/space taken for this to happen means it rarely if ever happens on a boat unless you have a bankside to store it for a suitable period of time. If you just chuck a bit of sawdust on it then put it in the bin it’s still hazardous to health which is how most boaters think composting works. 

 

There is a ready network of elsan & pump out points. I’ve never had a problem emptying either type of toilet in close on 30 years of living aboard. 

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6 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Of course, that must be why the C&RT recommend that you do just that.

Which is a pragmatic way of dealing with a new problem, it's not ideal at all because of the issues of recycling the waste and filling landfills with waste that normally gets treated and spread on farmland in a controlled manner.

Oh let's not forget all the extra plastic waste from any none compostable bags uses and that's not even considering the type of compostable plastic

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1 minute ago, Bargebuilder said:

But they actually state in the article that often the solids are not properly composted and give this as the reason why it should be double bagged and binned.

So it’s crapping into a bag...I repeat ..why not use a proper toilet? I’m also surprised they are encouraging it....hardly green if more plastic is used to contain it.....

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3 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

Which is a pragmatic way of dealing with a new problem, it's not ideal at all because of the issues of recycling the waste and filling landfills with waste that normally gets treated and spread on farmland in a controlled manner.

Oh let's not forget all the extra plastic waste from any none compostable bags uses and that's not even considering the type of compostable plastic

Not ideal at all, but that is surely why they should be accelerating the introduction of dedicated bins and perhaps selling a suitable, biodegradable bag too.

 

A composting/dessicating toilet for two 'contributers' only needs emptying once every two or three months. How many litres of liquid slurry would the C&RT need to deal with from the same boat if they had been using a pump-out loo and at what cost?

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