Help please! Water pump (?) issues!

[blythecooper]

Help and advice please! Apologies in advance for being completely clueless, but I'm here to hopefully learn how not to be...

This morning I turned on the hot water (Morco gas heater) to do the washing up.. Water didn't get hot so I went back to check and the pilot light had gone out. There were loud rattling/banging sounds coming from the calorifier. I turned off the water pump and the sounds continued for about 20 seconds. I've tried turning on the pump again and the sounds come back.

I have realised that the coolant for the 2 litre expansion tank has run dry.. Is this the cause? How much damage has been done by allowing the coolant to run dry?

I currently have no understanding of how the system is put together so don't know what connects to what, what feeds what, etc... All I know is that sound is NOT GOOD.

Any help greatly appreciated. I appreciate the info I've given is a little convoluted:  please be gentle, I've only had the boat for 6 days...

Edited April 20, 2018 by blythecooper

[MtB]

All very confusing. Are you saying you have a calorifier (copper cylinder storing hot water) AND a Morco? 

This will be nothing to do with the header tank being low though. That is for the engine coolant, or central heating. 

Shame it’s today as I’m local to you, but just come up to midlands to play for a couple of days on another boat! 

[MtB]

32 minutes ago, blythecooper said:

Water didn't get hot so I went back to check and the pilot light had gone out. There were loud rattling/banging sounds coming from the calorifier. I

 

I’ve had a wavebrain. I bet you have run out of water! The rattling noise is from the morco and the overheat thermostat shuts the pilot off when there is no water flow. Check the big water tank! 

[blythecooper]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

All very confusing. Are you saying you have a calorifier (copper cylinder storing hot water) AND a Morco? 

This will be nothing to do with the header tank being low though. That is for the engine coolant, or central heating. 

Shame it’s today as I’m local to you, but just come up to midlands to play for a couple of days on another boat! 

Yep, the previous owners got the Morco fitted at some point in the last few years and only used the calorifier when cruising.

So the expansion tank and header tank are the same thing?

I hope I've run out of water! The calorifier does sound like it's about to take off though.. Very different to the sound of the water pump. On my friend's boat when he runs out of water the water pump just continues chugging.. I guess it's different (like everything) on different boats though?

[blythecooper]

The red expansion tanks are inside the boat near calorifier and water heater, the last pic is in the lockers on the bow

[David Mack]

2 minutes ago, blythecooper said:

Yep, the previous owners got the Morco fitted at some point in the last few years and only used the calorifier when cruising.

So do you have a valve which determines whether hot water is drawn from the calorifier or the morco (which is fine)? Or does the one feed the other (which is not)?

[MtB]

11 minutes ago, blythecooper said:

So the expansion tank and header tank are the same thing?

 

No, not normally. The header tank is the little grubby white plastic tank in your photo and normally  nothing to do with your domestic water system. However, yours is connected with a valve to something, not sure what. Looks a diy lash-up to me, but still not the cause of this problem. 

The big blue thing is the calirifier. Is this where the noise is? If so, then your domestic water storage tank is almost definitely empty!

Oh and the morco being hidden behind that wooden panel is Really Not A Good Idea. Is the panel is removable, or can it be made removable? 

[blythecooper]

There are two taps- the top one is open and the bottom one closed to feed the morco and vice versa for the calorifier.

Ok, I will fill up water and try again. I'm trying to dig out the survey recommendations (everywhere is a mess atm!) but I know it flags up concerns about the location of the water heater and recommends someone qualified to take a look. Your username suggests you may well be the kind of person to advertise these services..? 

[blythecooper]

And thank you so much for your help. These forums are incredible!

[MtB]

19 minutes ago, blythecooper said:

And thank you so much for your help. These forums are incredible!

 

True!!

I was actually expecting a stream of battery questions from you as a new boater, before the water questions...   

Yes happy to look over your water heater when I get back down south if you wish, and yes I fix boilers for a living. No charge to boaters though, other than perhaps a cup of tea or a pint. 

[blythecooper]

46 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

True!!

I was actually expecting a stream of battery questions from you as a new boater, before the water questions...   

Yes happy to look over your water heater when I get back down south if you wish, and yes I fix boilers for a living. No charge to boaters though, other than perhaps a cup of tea or a pint. 

I've not got onto the batteries yet...

A look over the water heater would be very much appreciated, with hot drinks/alcohol/delicious food available on tap!

So I am so new that I can't moved the boat on my own yet (can't = don't dare. Kind neighbour taking me out on Monday), so I picked up a load of bottles of water. Only 20 litres but I thought maybe that would put my mind at rest if it stopped the sound and I could live without running water for a couple of days. But it hasn't. Is it way too little water? It's a 55 litre calorifier, does that have to refill when the water runs out? Perhaps the chugging sound (I've downgraded it from rattling/banging because I've dared to stand near it and observe for minute instead of running away and panicking) is it refilling with water? Or am I way off base? I'm going to spend the evening learning exactly what happens inside that big blue tank!

[MtB]

I think the chugging sound will be the water pump pumping fresh air, so no 20 litres nothing like enough. Your water tank is quite likely to be in the order of 300-500 litres. How far is the nearest tap? Can you pull the boat along to it using the mooring lines?? 

Get a neighbour to help?

Do you have a car? There is a large caravan place on the A4 at aldermaston. They will sell you a rolling water barrel you could use to lug some water from the tap along the towpath. 

[blythecooper]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I think the chugging sound will be the water pump pumping fresh air, so no 20 litres nothing like enough. Your water tank is quite likely to be in the order of 300-500 litres. How far is the nearest tap? Can you pull the boat along to it using the mooring lines?? 

Get a neighbour to help?

It's pretty close. I'll enlist the help of neighbours. I've stopped panicking now so that's nice

[MtB]

Just now, blythecooper said:

It's pretty close. I'll enlist the help of neighbours. I've stopped panicking now so that's nice

 

Panicking is perfectly acceptable behaviour in circumstances like this. Lots of people seem to like doing it but in my experience, it doesn’t usually make much difference to the underlying prob....

[rusty69]

C'mon, don't keep us in suspense! was it an empty water tank, valve in wrong position, empty gas bottle, a n other? Did you get the washing-up done?

[Rob-M]

Maybe not made it to the tap yet, or perhaps got to the tap but can't find the hose pipe.

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Maybe not made it to the tap yet, or perhaps got to the tap but can't find the hose pipe.

Maybe just binned the washing-up, bought some new stuff, and went down t'pub!

[MtB]

Might just be a really big water tank and still filling it!

[blythecooper]

If I was handed the boat with a full water tank (which is what I was told) and it's taken me a week to empty it- bearing in mind I'm not using the shower until I fix a leak in the tray- then the tank effin' tiny!

Sorry about the suspense. I hadn't realised how many people were on tenterhooks! But it will have to continue.. I haven't put any water in yet. Had to unexpectedly drive to Maidenhead to drop off a dodgy package (my friend's bag that was rudely taken from her van and then found dumped in the street by a neighbour) and I've only just got back. I did manage to pick up a couple of water containers from Aldi and strap them to my hand cart though, so step by step. At this rate I'll have running water again at least by Wednesday!

The washing up did not get done. But I did learn that tupperware lids make excellent plates.

[rusty69]

8 hours ago, blythecooper said:

If I was handed the boat with a full water tank (which is what I was told) and it's taken me a week to empty it- bearing in mind I'm not using the shower until I fix a leak in the tray- then the tank effin' tiny

It should be easy to determine if the main tank is empty, just turn on cold tap in kitchen. If no water comes out and pump continues to run, then its empty. 

Not sure i can wait til Wednesday, the suspense is killing me

[Sea Dog]

Good stuff Mike the Boilerman! 

[blythecooper]

5 hours ago, rusty69 said:

It should be easy to determine if the main tank is empty, just turn on cold tap in kitchen. If no water comes out and pump continues to run, then its empty. 

Not sure i can wait til Wednesday, the suspense is killing me

You can sleep easy tonight rusty69. I have put some water in the water tank and can now do the washing up. My first (of many, I'm sure) rookie error.

Btw, I made the mistake of buying fresh water jerry cans from Aldi. Neither of the lids are watertight, which kind of defeats the purpose wouldn't you say?

[Sea Dog]

2 hours ago, blythecooper said:

My first (of many, I'm sure) rookie error.

Btw, I made the mistake of buying fresh water jerry cans from Aldi. Neither of the lids are watertight, which kind of defeats the purpose wouldn't you say?

So now your score is up to 2!  You're doing well!

Nice to hear you problem is resolved.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, blythecooper said:

can sleep easy tonight rusty69. I have put some water in the water tank and can now do the washing up. My first (of many, I'm sure) rookie error.

 

It never ends. I just painted my boat roof and the minute I finished, the heavens opened. Roof covered in little rain drop circles for the next three years. Again! 

I've been boating 35 years and still forgot to check weather forcast. Rookie error. Huh. 

[rusty69]

37 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

It never ends. I just painted my boat roof and the minute I finished, the heavens opened. Roof covered in little rain drop circles for the next three years. Again! 

I've been boating 35 years and still forgot to check weather forcast. Rookie error. Huh. 

Yep, you should know better than that mtb. Two hot days and a thunderstorm!