BWM Posted April 23, 2018 Report Share Posted April 23, 2018 Whilst waiting to find a suitable solution, spend time establishing exactly what you want, then discuss this in detail with whoever is going to do the work. Every change of plan will end up expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vero F Posted April 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 So this is the current cabin And this is the project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vero F Posted April 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 I will also start a building blog on another part of the forum but I just wanted to show the persons who answered the exact idea. A few comments: -I designed the boat with the fit out pontoon keeping in mind that I wasn't going to cruise much and that I would be living on it on my own first, and maybe make it a peaceful place to rehearse and record music in a few years time. So my goal was to have a nice bathroom (not a wet room without windows), to move the kitchen to the back and to have a larger area for living room/bedroom. -Most of the time there will be a double bed at the front of the boat and if I have friends around or I am cruising for the day, i can make it a table for 4 with a nice place to relax next to the stove -The boat will have a pontoon and the entrance will be on the sides -there will be a door to the bathroom All comments and thoughts welcome. And thanks again for your help everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess-- Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 your existing layout looks similar to my own boat (although mine is quite a bit shorter at 45 feet) and I have found that it works well for extended periods. with your new layout it looks like you will be standing in the bathroom to steer the boat, not a problem if you're on your own but not so good if you have others on the boat. don't rely on the side hatches as your entrance / exit, it may work perfectly well on a fixed mooring but is unlikely to work well for a boat that moves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, Vero F said: Actually being both French and new to the narrowboat world, my vocabulary to describe the project may not be as accurate as I would like to... But hopefully in two or three posts I can give an exact idea:) Thanks a lot for your help and comprehension Apologies for my rather blunt post from last night. I didn't realise you were not posting in your native language. Your drawing looks a complex refit to me, and a very unusual carefully designed layout. On balance I think buying a new 'sailaway' boat (a new boat with engine and floor but no interior) would be your best bet, funding allowing, unless you re particularly in love with the current boat. Then your new empty boat can be delivered to a boat fitting company and no stripping out work will be necessary, leading to substantial time savings. The kitchen and bathroom are where all the money and time go in a refit. Now you can live comfortably if not ideally on the current boat while the new once is built. Once you have your new boat, sell the old one. I think the overall cost will not turn out to be much different from the total refit of your existing boat, but you will end up with a new boat for a lot less stress. Edited April 24, 2018 by Mike the Boilerman Edit to add the word 'not'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vero F Posted April 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, Jess-- said: your existing layout looks similar to my own boat (although mine is quite a bit shorter at 45 feet) and I have found that it works well for extended periods. with your new layout it looks like you will be standing in the bathroom to steer the boat, not a problem if you're on your own but not so good if you have others on the boat. don't rely on the side hatches as your entrance / exit, it may work perfectly well on a fixed mooring but is unlikely to work well for a boat that moves The boat is going to be permanently moored in London 95% of the time and will probably be out for some cruising in the weekend but not much else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vero F Posted April 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said: Apologies for my rather blunt post from last night. I didn't realise you were posting in your native language. Your drawing looks a complex refit to me, and a very unusual carefully designed layout. On balance I think buying a new 'sailaway' boat (a new boat with engine and floor but no interior) would be your best bet, funding allowing, unless you re particularly in love with the current boat. Then your new empty boat can be delivered to a boat fitting company and no stripping out work will be necessary, leading to substantial time savings. The kitchen and bathroom are where all the money and time go in a refit. Now you can live comfortably if not ideally on the current boat while the new once is built. Once you have your new boat, sell the old one. I think the overall cost will not turn out to be much different from the total refit of your existing boat, but you will end up with a new boat for a lot less stress. No worries, but yes that's definitely an option I will consider as well. in my first calculus, I saw that the sailaway option was probably slightly more expensive but on the other side I have no quotes for the work I want to be done... So I may as well reconsider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Vero F said: No worries, but yes that's definitely an option I will consider as well. in my first calculus, I saw that the sailaway option was probably slightly more expensive but on the other side I have no quotes for the work I want to be done... So I may as well reconsider. If it is only slightly more expensive, the extra 'value for money' in convenience, is massive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reg Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 (edited) Effectively it appears that you are Junking existing bedroom Moving bathroom and kitchen backwards to fill the gap left by the lost bedroom. Total effect is to lengthen the lounge by a number of feet. Important question Is that the main objective? I notice that in the second drawing you have a smaller well deck which implies that the front bulk head steel work will need to be altered to achieve your desired result. Does seem like an awful lot of work to gain a few feet of lounge space, albeit I can accept the desirability of achieving that. May I provide a further option to consider. Drop the well deck altogether and have the steel work altered to provide a wrap around front end. This gives you an extended front lounge, vastly reduces the amount of work required, retains the existing bedroom space which could be used as an office, music room, storage room(of which there appears to be very little at the moment) or whatever. Might be worth at this point for you to lay out clearly the pros and cons of the options available. Options 1 Your existing plan 2 Wrap around front end 3 Selling boat and buying another that suits 4 Selling boat and buying sail away plus to your own design. 5 (Late addition) lengthen the boat If it was me I would go for number 2 or 5 and then 3 or 4 and very last option 1. But then everyone is different. For 2 and 5 have a word with Martin Kedian who is a highly regarded member on here and can be found at http://www.kedianengineering.co.uk/contact-us.html Edited April 24, 2018 by reg Added highly regarded comment in attempt to harvest a greenie from Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vero F Posted April 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 13 minutes ago, reg said: I notice that in the second drawing you have a smaller well deck which implies that the front bulk head steel work will need to be altered to achieve your desired result. Sorry for the lack of precision of the drawings, I don't want any steel work done on the front of the boat. When I did the drawing of the current cabin, the drawing template was not made to scale so I had to correct it, and I drew the lines in black to represent the actual current measures of the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vero F Posted April 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 16 minutes ago, reg said: Total effect is to lengthen the lounge by a number of feet. Important question Is that the main objective? The main problem I have with the current boat is the bathroom, which is dark, badly ventilated and dirty, while the boiler takes 2.5 feet of space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reg Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Vero F said: Sorry for the lack of precision of the drawings, I don't want any steel work done on the front of the boat. When I did the drawing of the current cabin, the drawing template was not made to scale so I had to correct it, and I drew the lines in black to represent the actual current measures of the boat. OK so 2 and 5 have been rejected which is a result So it's down to pros and cons of the t'others then. Eta Sorry Was typing same time as you So objectives are getting clearer Primary objective to lengthen lounge? Secondary objective to refurbish bathroom and kitchen? Edited April 24, 2018 by reg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vero F Posted April 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 27 minutes ago, reg said: OK so 2 and 5 have been rejected which is a result So it's down to pros and cons of the t'others then. Eta Sorry Was typing same time as you So objectives are getting clearer Primary objective to lengthen lounge? Secondary objective to refurbish bathroom and kitchen? Exactly. And more generally to make it a nice place to live for one person who is not going to cruise, except on day trip. The boat has a permanent mooring with electricity and water, and a pontoon access on the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reg Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Vero F said: Exactly. And more generally to make it a nice place to live for one person who is not going to cruise, except on day trip. The boat has a permanent mooring with electricity and water, and a pontoon access on the side. Looking more doable all the time particularly if done a a series of smaller projects possible project sequence Milestone 1 Install forward benches/ beds Gut rear bedroom Milestone 2 Install new bathroom and toilet Gut existing bathroom Milestone 3 Move kitchen into area vacated from old bathroom Milestone 4 Tidy up paneling and trim Milestone 5 Lay new floor coverings 1 should be easy to achieve and gives a good start, should be relatively easy to find a carpenter to do this. Certainly this should be achievable ahead of all the other jobs as it only really requires a carpenter If you find someone good then you may be able to call on them for 4 and possibly parts of 2 and 3 on an as required basis to do a clearly defined job. That's a possible broad outline plan. The trickiest parts will be 2 and 3 as a number of issues with plumbing, gas pipes, skin fittings, rewiring etc will need to be addressed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vero F Posted April 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 Thanks! I see a little light at the end of the tunnel now:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reg Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vero F said: Thanks! I see a little light at the end of the tunnel now:) Your welcome. I have had a ponder and have one real concern that needs to be addressed before you undertake any work and that is in the siting of the electrical cupboard in the bathroom/shower room and adjacent to vanity basin. Im not best qualified to say whether this would be a BSS failure or not but I do know there are strict rules about electrics, particularly 240v , in shower rooms. It might be worth starting a new thread with a diagram of the proposed bathroom setup so that some more experienced than me could give you guidance on this very important issue. Also worth getting and studying the BSS manual a copy of the 2005 regs can be found here https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/180428/bss guide 2005 complete web.pdf Taking note of the following "1.6 Fitting out or making changes It is important to remember that this Guide is not a DIY instruction manual on boat construction, repairs or maintenance. You should always refer to a manufacturer or supplier for such information. We also recommend having a competent person replace, modify or repair any part of your boat's installations, components and appliances. Before making changes to your boat, check the latest editions of relevant British and International Standards as well as marine or other relevant industry codes of practice. There are references to some relevant ones in each chapter and useful sources of information in the contact list." The highlighted part is where others on here may be able to help, particularly as regards to electrics and water Proximity ETA Also found this useful link https://victoriaplum.com/blog/posts/electrical-products-and-bathroom-safety Edited April 24, 2018 by reg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 1 hour ago, reg said: a copy of the 2005 regs can be found here... The current regs can be found here: https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/268789/ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 On 24/04/2018 at 09:17, Vero F said: So this is the current cabin And this is the project I am a little surprised you have bought a conventional layout boat and are aiming to turn it into a reverse layout. That will incurr a lot more cost in moving services. When we were looking for a boat this time last year, we were focussed on a reverse layout but ended up buying a conventional one. We are now really glad we did as we find it so much better to have our living accomodation at the front where the cratch works as a great 'conservatory' and even in deep winter with the stove working, the cratch is warm enough to sit in, therefore giving us 6ft more of living space. Yes from your pics you need to upgrade the bathroom and kitchen and that should be possible for £10K -£15K but why not just leave the overall layout the same otherwise that extra cost will kick in. When we bought ours we spent £10K to get a new kitchen and dinette fitted plus new stove and a wardrobe in the bedroom plus some other stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 12 hours ago, Dr Bob said: When we bought ours we spent £10K to get a new kitchen Point of Order M'Lud... In a boat, its called a galley... P.S. Not sure what the correct boaty word is for a dining room though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted April 25, 2018 Report Share Posted April 25, 2018 18 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said: Point of Order M'Lud... In a boat, its called a galley... P.S. Not sure what the correct boaty word is for a dining room though. Mmmmmmm! I'm pretty sure I asked for a kitchen. I wonder if they put a gallery in? It didn't come with any pictures though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vero F Posted April 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 So back to my original subject: Has anyone of you had a bathroom/kitchen/galley refit? Could you recommend any place where I could have that done? Or any trustworthy person who could help m on my project. I already tried to contact P&S marine, are there others you can think about in the London area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted April 26, 2018 Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 12 minutes ago, Vero F said: So back to my original subject: Has anyone of you had a bathroom/kitchen/galley refit? Could you recommend any place where I could have that done? Or any trustworthy person who could help m on my project. I already tried to contact P&S marine, are there others you can think about in the London area? Mine was done up at Knowle, nr Solihull so likely too far for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted April 26, 2018 Report Share Posted April 26, 2018 An old boat with a major refit is still an old boat. A new boat with a new fit out is a new boat. Time and money spent removing the old interior is an expense not required on a new boat. If any lining is removed it may reveal poor insulation or even some rust? Do you sort this out or just fit new lining to hide it? As has been said, unless this boat is something special, a new boat might make better economic sense, this is especially true if you are paying others to do the work for you. ................Dave 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bod Posted May 2, 2018 Report Share Posted May 2, 2018 On 24/04/2018 at 09:17, Vero F said: So this is the current cabin And this is the project Which end of the boat do you use as your main entrance? Bow (front), table/bed will have to be moved out of the way. Stern (back),everybody will be walking through the bathroom. Side hatches, these will have very steep steps inside. Access to the rear doors, currently is through a door in the bedroom, your second plan shows the wash basin in the doorway. I fear a lot more thinking is needed to come to a practical layout. Bod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Featured Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now